[討論]GWD13-29(10-3)(推薦第二頁的獨立主格結構分析)

[davidlee0222]

這好像跟小弟之前講的次要結構
不謀而合
這裡就是分辭為次要結構
不管有沒有with(沒有with是分辭補述，有with是狀態補述)
都是一個狀態補述
在此狀態條件下
主軸文句成立

基本上次要結構只是在補述一個條件或狀態
結構意義上不影響主軸結構
而在句子的"意思"上
是在講"在此狀況or條件下，xxx..."
有點像if條件句
但結構意義不同
雖然意思一樣仍算改變句意

在修辭中常考流水句或主軸結構意義是否改變(尤其GWD)
邏輯及閱讀中則常用來出陷井題
問非此條件下，xxx如何如何
一律無法推知，除非有另外說明

[davidlee0222]

順便釐清一個觀念
"結構意義"跟"句子意思"是兩回事
所謂次要補述不影響結構意義
最主要的判別就是
"次要結構可以拿掉"主軸不受影響
只是少了個條件
雖然意思變了
但主軸結構不變

修辭常考原句是分辭的次要結構補述+一主軸文句
另外給一個選項是直接用主軸文句從頭講到尾
雖然意思一樣
但是結構意義不同
算改變句意
小弟這次雞考就是卡在一提這樣的
想了五分鐘想不出來
目前尚未定論到底哪個簡潔或改變句意
小弟要重回歐姬整理詳解才能跟各位報告

基本上會遇到這種題目的抉擇
小弟個人以為是結構意義精髓的高段難題

[yongzhou]

Q29(10-3亦同)
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

A.each a roof of poles and arrow weed
B.each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
C.with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
D.with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
E.with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

我試看看把正確句都弄出來, 雖然有些意思不大相同
A. 正確--- this is an appositive constrction with a summarizing word-- each-- in front. (Similar summary words are: all, something....)
meaning: (dwellings=shades=roofs of...)
A2 =>each with a roof of poles and arrowweed(正確)
meaning: ( each shade has a roof of ...)
B. (that are being) XXXX
C. In absolute constructions, you can of course use something like ", with my heart beating vigorously.", but in C "being" is still akward.
=> 只能改成A
D. (to be)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (正確)
meaning: ( each shade has roofs of ...)
E. (that are)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (that were)(正確) 但去掉更簡潔
--------
(supported .....) can modify "roof"(a roof of QQQQ), as long as (QQQQ) is not too long.
--------
希望大家也看看(老人家不見得都對啊)
http://www.formosamba.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=841

[Behemoth]

樓上說的好
本來就沒說老人家就都會對呀~~ ^^

只有大家互相討論
真理才會越辯越明
是吧~~

[Janet]

Q29(10-3亦同)
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

A.each a roof of poles and arrow weed
B.each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
C.with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
D.with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
E.with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

我試看看把正確句都弄出來, 雖然有些意思不大相同

D. (to be)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (正確)
meaning: ( each shade has roofs of ...)

這是我一直的疑問,請問要如何判斷,D原句錯在哪邊?為何要去掉to be.

[Janet]

Q29(10-3亦同)
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

A.each a roof of poles and arrow weed
B.each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
C.with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
D.with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
E.with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

我試看看把正確句都弄出來, 雖然有些意思不大相同

D. (to be)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (正確)
meaning: ( each shade has roofs of ...)

這是我一直的疑問,請問要如何判斷,D原句錯在哪邊?為何要去掉to be.

以下copy自calvin

"獨立主格結構：
N（代名詞） + 現在分詞/過去分詞
Adj.
Adv.
Infinitives
Prep. Phrase "

不定詞不是也可以嗎?

[Janet]

Q29(10-3亦同)
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

A.each a roof of poles and arrow weed
B.each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
C.with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
D.with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
E.with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

我試看看把正確句都弄出來, 雖然有些意思不大相同

D. (to be)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (正確)
meaning: ( each shade has roofs of ...)

這是我一直的疑問,請問要如何判斷,D原句錯在哪邊?為何要去掉to be.

以下copy自calvin

"獨立主格結構：
N（代名詞） + 現在分詞/過去分詞
Adj.
Adv.
Infinitives
Prep. Phrase "

不定詞不是也可以嗎?

抱歉!!沒認真看大衛與yongzhou的解釋,上面真是亂問一通,我已經了解!!!

這裡就是分辭為次要結構
不管有沒有with(沒有with是分辭補述，有with是狀態補述)
都是一個狀態補述
在此狀態條件下
主軸文句成立

D. (to be)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (正確)
meaning: ( each shade has roofs of ...)
E. (that are)XXXX
=>with roofs of poles and arrowweed (that were)(正確) 但去掉更簡潔

[coruscant]

如果上面第2點成立的話 , 那(E)就一定是錯誤的啦

因為這樣會ambiguity , 變成roof 是由 poles 跟 (supported by posts set in a rectangle)的arrow weed 所組成的

而不是原意 roof 是由 (supported by posts set in a rectangle)的 poles 跟 arrow weed 組成的

此外, E跟 A比較起來 ,修飾對象鐵定不若(A)來的明確清晰

這也是A出勝的原因

以上...............謝啦 ;)

這邊先給你一個老師說法
老師確實說supported by posts set in a rectangle是修飾arrowweed
很玄妙吧~

按照句子的排列的確是沒錯啊

arrowweed 是最靠近的N 所以說 arrowweed 是 supported by posts set in a rectangle 的修飾主語 ,一點都不奇怪 :D

不過 , 根據我當初補習時 不時在捷運上騷擾莫北北的經驗

他應該話沒有說完 ....因為他以為降說學生就懂了 :D

依照原句,(supported by posts set in a rectangle)不論之前有沒有加上that are,都是最靠近arrowweed,所以我覺得應該沒有ambiguity的問題. 我的想法是,完全依句意來看,句尾是a rectangle(技巧:注意未畫線部分),因此從逗點後面就只是在形容每個shade的結構是怎樣,至於這個rectangle的組成,就是:

a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts
----- ---------- -----
(a) (b) (c)

只有supported by posts形容arrowweed,而set in a rectangle則是形容poles and arrowweed supported by posts.

用這個句意,一個屋頂形成一個rectangle的樣子,也可以刪去E

不曉得這樣講有沒有其他遺漏?

[coruscant]

抱歉剛剛排版問題

(a)是poles
(b)是arrowweed
(c)是posts

[jenny1021]

這題果然很吊詭！
我的想法是BCDE都有redundancy的問題，are being/with being/to be/that are，這樣可能會比較合理一些
意見僅供參考

[Ace]

我作題時就是用coruscant的想法
a rectangle去對應a roof~~~

[puresillylily]

Thank you for this wonderful sharing!!
Just to make sure if there is a type in this example:
He stood there, his hand raised.
= He stood there, with his hand "raised". (rather than "raise," right?)

[ebyayaya]

贊成coruscant...

each a roof [(of poles and arrow weed)supported by posts] set in a rectangle.

這是在敘述一組帳棚的組成方式，數量應該可以作為一個判斷的基準.

[tarz]

今天和同學再討論到這一題, 覺得有可能可以這樣還原解釋

... shades, each(adv.) a roof of poles and arrowweed (which is) supported by posts (which are) set in a rectangle.

其中 each 不是當代名詞, 而是副詞, 是強調"每一個"
shade 當可數名詞用的時候是"遮太陽的東西", 所以 a roof 可以解釋成它的同位語
另外, 屋頂(roof)應該是被木樁(post)所支撐, 這些木樁則是被安置成四方形

提供一點自己的看法, 歡迎大家批評討論~ :D

[ann221]

這題是E,dwellings 是複數,each不對