[問題]gwd3-35

[davidslin]

後來又重看這篇,
覺得該篇大意應該是如下:

大多數歷史學家認為婦女是獨立的,但是有個人類學家覺得是社群的集合,然後作者舉了某個歷史學家的對A的研究,她(該歷史學家)的假設跟大多數歷史學家一樣,都是認為婦女是獨立的
yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.


這一題我也是看了蠻多次才覺得這樣解釋是合理的,如果認為該歷史學家後來改變觀點,變成跟人類學家一樣,要是這題改成

GWD-3-Q35:
The passage suggests that the historian mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42) would be most likely to agree with which of the following assertions regarding Alessandra Strozzi?

A.Alessandra is an example of a Renaissance woman who expressed her individuality through independent action.
B.Alessandra's actions are defined within a complex
web of social relationships.

不就要選B了......

哇∼我覺得你分析得好有道理！

不過就像你之前說的「yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.」可見那位女性歷史學家好像還是不肯承認「社會」這個看法，所以你的自編題應該是 A 而不是 B 吧∼

你覺得呢？

呵呵 對呀 答案還是A
我的意思是說如果誤解文章的意思,就會選到B囉

[davidslin]

Indeed, one could argue that(有人會說xxx:作者自己預設反駁意見-表示作者贊同另一看法) Alessandra did not distinguish her personhood from that of her sons(有人會說A不把自己與小孩分開來看-事實上作者不以為然). In Renaissance Europe(形容詞片語補述後面主辭) the boundaries(主辭:xx的範圍) of the conceptual self(概念自我的範圍) were not always(主要動辭:並不總是) firm and closed(概念自我的範圍並不總是固定而封閉) and(對等連接詞帶出平行定義) did not necessarily(也並不必然)coincide(與xx巧合,交疊) with the boundaries of the bodily self.(一下又來6行…好像很恐怖-其實還是粉簡單)(概念自我的範圍並不總是固定而封閉,也並不必然與身體的自我交疊)

真糟糕！都已經翻得這麼詳細了，但是文章最後兩句，我還是不清楚。i89
作者認為（自提別人會反駁的理由）有人會說A不把自己與小孩分開來看 指的是： 別人會反駁說A其實跟小孩一樣。

降不就跟作者意見相同了嗎？？那還反駁什麼呢？

至於超級抽象的最後一句說明「概念自我」與「實體自我」並不衝突，到底在解釋些什麼啊？（不要逼我去請教哲學系的同學啊！）

我覺得那是指A搞不清楚那到底是她自己的目標興趣還是孩子的目標興趣,所以A可能[概念]上覺得自己是獨立的,[實質]上並非如此,最後一句應該是說「概念自我」與「實體自我」並非一致的......

[stilalala]

關於 q35的答案我覺得很疑惑
我知道其他答案都是錯的

我想我可能文章沒看懂吧

我覺得是the historian's own research reveals Alessandra 不是如他所預期的是individual, 相反的是take her sons' goal as her own
所以照理說, the historian 後來不就是會認為他不是an ezample of individual...了嗎

不知道究竟哪裡出了問題
看了大家的討論,還是有點混亂

請各位大大幫個忙

謝謝

[michelle610]

To stilalala

Q35:
The passage suggests that the historian mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42) would be most likely to agree with which of the following assertions regarding Alessandra Strozzi?

題目的意思是第二段的"這個歷史學家"他同意下列選項中的哪一個可以解釋A寡婦
所以重點是"這個歷史學家"

因此從davidslin大的解說中 (如下)

後來又重看這篇,
覺得該篇大意應該是如下:

第一段:大多數歷史學家認為婦女是獨立的,但是有個人類學家覺得是社群的集合,
第二段:然後作者舉了某個歷史學家的對A的研究,她(該歷史學家)的假設跟大多數歷史學家一樣,都是認為婦女是獨立的 ---->我們可以了解到 "這個歷史學家"也是贊同A寡婦是獨立的

Yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.

我想你覺得混亂的地方應該是沒看出來yet之後是作者的意見 所以誤以為yet之後還是"這個歷史學家"的意見[tab]

[stilalala]

To stilalala

Q35:
The passage suggests that the historian mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42) would be most likely to agree with which of the following assertions regarding Alessandra Strozzi?

題目的意思是第二段的"這個歷史學家"他同意下列選項中的哪一個可以解釋A寡婦
所以重點是"這個歷史學家"

因此從davidslin大的解說中 (如下)

後來又重看這篇,
覺得該篇大意應該是如下:

第一段:大多數歷史學家認為婦女是獨立的,但是有個人類學家覺得是社群的集合,
第二段:然後作者舉了某個歷史學家的對A的研究,她(該歷史學家)的假設跟大多數歷史學家一樣,都是認為婦女是獨立的 ---->我們可以了解到 "這個歷史學家"也是贊同A寡婦是獨立的

Yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.

我想你覺得混亂的地方應該是沒看出來yet之後是作者的意見 所以誤以為yet之後還是"這個歷史學家"的意見[tab]

感謝 michelle610 大大
現在完全懂了
謝謝!!

[A級垂耳兔]

davidlee0222真的是強到不行...超級崇拜.....看完你解題比上一整晚徐文意的課還要有價值...翻譯用字措辭超漂亮...

[mandy-lo]

GWD-3-Q35哪位好心的大大能幫忙解答？？？？？


看完這篇頭真暈ㄚ~~~

想請教davidslin大大所說的這個部份:
This historian assumes that Alessandra had goals and interests different from those of her
sons, yet much of the historian’s own research reveals that Alessandra acted primarily as a champion of her sons’ interests, taking their goals as her own.... Thus Alessandra conforms more closely to the anthropologist’s notion that personal motivation is embedded in a social context...
yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.




我的解讀是:This historian她假定A是獨立的,然而大多數的historians持相反的觀點－表示A更符合anthropologist的觀點,所以Q36也可以很清楚的定位






GWD-3-Q36:
It can be inferred that the author of the passage believes which of the following about the study of Alessandra Strozzi done by the historian mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42)?

E.The interpretation of Alessandra’s actions that the historian puts forward is not supported by much of the historian’s research.

否則下一句的Indeed(作者態度進來)－
Indeed, one could argue that Alessandra did not distinguish her personhood from
that of her sons. 作者說:的確,也說有人會認為A其實跟小孩一樣(事實上,作者不認同)

但若照你的說法則是:
yet之後都是作者的意見,也就是說作者認同人頪學者,但是問題來了－
這個後面的Indeed(作者態度進來)－
Indeed, one could argue that Alessandra did not distinguish her personhood from
that of her sons. 作者說:的確,也說有人會認為A其實跟小孩一樣(事實上,作者不認同)
這句不就跟作者意見相同了嗎？？那還作者為何預設反駁意見（表示不認同）呢？？？？？？
天哪！！快暈了，哪位好心的大大能幫忙解答？？？？？

[davidlee0222]

GWD-3-Q35哪位好心的大大能幫忙解答？？？？？


看完這篇頭真暈ㄚ~~~

想請教davidslin大大所說的這個部份:
This historian assumes that Alessandra had goals and interests different from those of her
sons, yet much of the historian’s own research reveals that Alessandra acted primarily as a champion of her sons’ interests, taking their goals as her own.... Thus Alessandra conforms more closely to the anthropologist’s notion that personal motivation is embedded in a social context...
yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.




我的解讀是:This historian她假定A是獨立的,然而大多數的historians持相反的觀點－表示A更符合anthropologist的觀點,所以Q36也可以很清楚的定位






GWD-3-Q36:
It can be inferred that the author of the passage believes which of the following about the study of Alessandra Strozzi done by the historian mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42)?

E.The interpretation of Alessandra’s actions that the historian puts forward is not supported by much of the historian’s research.

否則下一句的Indeed(作者態度進來)－
Indeed, one could argue that Alessandra did not distinguish her personhood from
that of her sons. 作者說:的確,也說有人會認為A其實跟小孩一樣(事實上,作者不認同)

但若照你的說法則是:
yet之後都是作者的意見,也就是說作者認同人頪學者,但是問題來了－
這個後面的Indeed(作者態度進來)－
Indeed, one could argue that Alessandra did not distinguish her personhood from
that of her sons. 作者說:的確,也說有人會認為A其實跟小孩一樣(事實上,作者不認同)
這句不就跟作者意見相同了嗎？？那還作者為何預設反駁意見（表示不認同）呢？？？？？？
天哪！！快暈了，哪位好心的大大能幫忙解答？？？？？

整篇文章作者意見在indeed後面才出現
同意文藝復興時期個人並不是封閉個體而是社群集合
前面作者只是陳述出各方研究

整篇基本上在講幾句話
主流歷史學家認為人是個人封閉體
但跟一位人類學家意見相左
他認為人是社群的交集

而另一位歷史學家對一個實驗對象叫AS的研究支持這位人類學家的意見
研究假設AS的目標跟他小孩的目標不同
但AS以小孩的目標為目標
證明文藝復興時期個人是社群集合
而作者認同這點
下了一個結論說文藝時期個人並不封閉

想請教davidslin大大所說的這個部份:
This historian assumes that Alessandra had goals and interests different from those of her
sons, yet much of the historian’s own research reveals that Alessandra acted primarily as a champion of her sons’ interests, taking their goals as her own.... Thus Alessandra conforms more closely to the anthropologist’s notion that personal motivation is embedded in a social context...
yet這邊帶出來的是作者的意見,意思是說雖然該歷史學家假設婦女是獨立的,可是她研究所透露出的卻是跟人類學家的觀點相近(是社群的集合),yet之後都是作者的意見,而非該歷史學家後來又改變了觀點而貼近人類學家.

這邊小弟的解讀是
assume跟yet只是作者將歷史學家的研究作陳述
並沒有參予意見

研究都會先有研究假設
做出的結果會支持或推翻自己原先的假設
歷史學家假設AS的追求目標與子女不同
但後來發現AS放棄自我目標而以子女目標拿來當自己的
因此支持先前的特立獨行人類學家論點
認為人是社群交集

indeed後面才是作者意見
而作者認同做研究的歷史學家與特立獨行人類學家

我的解讀是:This historian她假定A是獨立的,然而大多數的historians持相反的觀點－表示A更符合anthropologist的觀點,所以Q36也可以很清楚的定位

Mandy的解讀應該是看到頭昏了所以中間可能有些盲點

做研究的歷史學家研究時假設A獨立沒錯
但後來他做了研究後推翻原先假設
而跟特立獨行人類學家論點相同

主流歷史學家的意見是一開始就存在不會動的
後來人類學家提出相異觀點
然後再後來有個歷史學家做了研究(推翻他自己的研究假設)而支持人類學家
最後作者出來說indeed

[mandy-lo]

感謝牛人解惑!!!!
非常感謝~.~

[willyyang]

Q35:
(前四個字固定是廢話)The passage suggests that the historian(問歷史學家-後面補述先跳) mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42) would be most likely to agree(就是例子裡的歷史學家同意啥?) with which of the following assertions regarding(關於A的說法) Alessandra Strozzi?
文章已經了解,看完題目心理要先有答案-他同意A是由家庭社群構成的集合
A. Alessandra was able to act more independently than most women(沒提到其他女人-刪) of her time because she was a widow.
B. Alessandra was aware(她蛇麼也不知道-刪,後面不要浪費時間看) that her personal motivation was embedded in a social context.
C. Alessandra had goals and interests similar to those of many other widows(沒提到其他寡婦-刪) in her society.
D. Alessandra is an example of a Renaissance woman who expressed her individuality through independent action.(敘述沒有錯誤-保留)
E. Alessandra was exceptional(沒提到她是特例-刪) because she was able to effect changes in the social constraints placed upon women in her society.
答案D
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q36:
It can be inferred(小心infer這個字-ETS粉建,可能考推論也可能考細節) that the author作者 (of the passage廢話,難到還有別篇嗎) believes(考作者態度) which of the following about the study of Alessandra Strozzi done by the historian(作者相信例子裡的歷史學家的”研究”如何-後面廢話不要浪費時間看,例子的作者就只有那麼一個) mentioned in the second paragraph (lines 19-42)?
若了解文章,在讀文章時就知道看到34行indeed是作者意見,當時已預測考題-作者同意研究的那個”歷史學家”對個人定義最後是向人類學家說法(人是社群的集合)靠攏
讓答案自己來找你
A. Alessandra was atypical(非典型-未提:刪,後面叮叮噹噹不要浪費時間) of her time and was therefore an inappropriate choice for the subject of the historian’s research.
B. In order to bolster her thesis, the historian adopted the anthropological perspective on personhood.(並沒有接受人類學家的概念來支持,僅結論與人類學家說法接近)
C. The historian argues that the boundaries of the conceptual self were not always firm and closed in Renaissance Europe.(要小心-這是作者意見)
D. In her study, the historian reverts to a traditional approach(並沒提到傳統方法-刪) that is out of step with the work of other historians of Renaissance Europe.
E. The interpretation of Alessandra’s actions that the historian puts forward is not supported by much of the historian’s research.(沒錯,因為大多數歷史學家認為個人獨立於自然跟社群之外)

先崇拜一下david大大，神啊！

Q.36 (E) 我的理解是：這位歷史學家進行studies中，大部分不support自己的論點

我看了20分鐘，覺得好像不是" 大多數歷史學家"

還是我沒看懂

誰來幫忙一下

[aqboy[origen]]

想請問關於這篇文章的新題

According to the passage, much of the research on Alessandra Strozzi done by the historian mentioned in the second
paragraph (lines 19-42) supports which of the following conclusions?

A. Alessandra used her position as her sons’ sole guardian to further interests different from those of her sons.
B. Alessandra unwillingly sacrificed her own interests in favor of those of her sons.
C. Alessandra’s actions indicate that her motivations and intentions were those of an independent individual.
D. Alessandra’s social context encouraged her to take independent action.
E. Alessandra regarded her sons’ goals and interests as her own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

這題在傷咖沒看到討論帖, CD上的答案有A 跟 E兩種意見,

我個人是選E這個答案, 拿上來討論一下~~有人有別的看法嗎??