Ask Mark/Top MBA/Career Discussion

[MarkHsu]

I think it has more to do with California and its laid-back culture.

I think the perception that California is an Asian state is quite off base. California is a state with roughly 34 million people, but only ~13% are Asian. This is higher than the US average, but the perception that Asians are everywhere in the state is not true.

I think a few reasons may explain why job numbers are down for USC and perhaps all California biz schools is due to the economic organization of the state.

1) traditional recruiters of MBAs (banks & other financial institutions) have a limited presence in California.

2) The greater LA economy is highly entrepreneurial and is characterized by many small to medium sized businesses, meaning they do not have a need or have the money to hire top MBAs.

3) Many large companies in California are tech companies, meaning positions for MBAs are limited since tech companies are still largely driven by technologists.

4) The few tech companies that do actively hire MBAs in California, such as Google, eBay, Yahoo, etc. have few openings. Even though these are valuable companies, employee-wise they are still fairly small. Also, the openings available at these companies are highly competitive and attract the best MBA graduates from America.

5) The laid back culture in California encourages individuality. So relative to the schools on the US East Coast, California schools are less competitive and there isn't this pressure to be as driven.

6) California also has a more entrepreneurial culture. So if a graduate doesn't find exactly what he wants, he may opt to start something on his own.

[Jason Lee]

What are top 15 schools? (preferably in order) Thank you Mark.

[MarkHsu]

I don't think there's any order, but I would divide them into tiers.

General grouping:

Tier 1: Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Columbia, Chicago, MIT (Yes, I know there are others who will also dice up this section into even finer groups.)

Tier 2: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, Yale, Tuck, Darden, NYU

Tier 3: CMU, Austin, Emory, UNC, USC

Other for Consideration: Georgetown, Indiana

By top 15, I mean Tier 1 & Tier 2.

But, I think it depends on what you want to do and your career interest. My general rule is get into the best school possible and then if you are fortunate enough to get into multiple schools within the same tier, find the best fit.

[wsh]

I counted that there are 16 schs in Tier 1 and 2.

One of them is added to the top 15 recently?

[Jason Lee]

Good job WSH! Hey, Mark. Are you trying to mislead us? We don’t want to waste our money on a non-top 15 school. Please identify which one of those does not belong to the top 15 schools. Thank you.

[wsh]

haha..... just a bit curious as "top15" is used very often here.

I am sure its something trivial...

[Yimmiwan]

Don't be too obsessed to ranking and the same called "top 15". The same discussion has been written million times in BW forum, and there is no definite "top 15" or "top 20" schools. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion of what those "top 15" schools are. I don't think Mark is misleading people here. He basically gives us a list of schools which many will consider in the "top 15" range. On BW forum, the most often debated school is Yale, as some don't believe the school is in the top 15 range. But the same argument has been said to NYU, Cornell, CMU, and, even by some surprises, Georgetown (for IB purpose). Spending time debating which one is better than another is useless. Please use your energy and this forum resource into more meaningful discussion.

[Anita0716]

Mark,

不好意思因為不是很瞭解
可否就介紹比較熱門的幾個呢?
感謝

Anita

[modern]

I don't think there's any order, but I would divide them into tiers.

General grouping:

Tier 1: Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Columbia, Chicago, MIT (Yes, I know there are others who will also dice up this section into even finer groups.)

Tier 2: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, Yale, Tuck, Darden, NYU

Tier 3: CMU, Austin, Emory, UNC, USC

Other for Consideration: Georgetown, Indiana

By top 15, I mean Tier 1 & Tier 2.

But, I think it depends on what you want to do and your career interest. My general rule is get into the best school possible and then if you are fortunate enough to get into multiple schools within the same tier, find the best fit.

footnote:

People always ask about what M7s are, and here it is, just the same as what Mark mentioned in Tier 1.

Tier 2: among all of them, I truely believe Ross and tuck have potential to be "very close" to tier 1. They are not good for their location. As for cornell, it get advantage from its location, as well as its brand as one of the Ivy league schools.

[modern]

Don't be too obsessed to ranking and the same called "top 15". The same discussion has been written million times in BW forum, and there is no definite "top 15" or "top 20" schools. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion of what those "top 15" schools are. I don't think Mark is misleading people here. He basically gives us a list of schools which many will consider in the "top 15" range. On BW forum, the most often debated school is Yale, as some don't believe the school is in the top 15 range. But the same argument has been said to NYU, Cornell, CMU, and, even by some surprises, Georgetown (for IB purpose). Spending time debating which one is better than another is useless. Please use your energy and this forum resource into more meaningful discussion.

我猜他們只是鬧著玩的 哈哈

well... 不同目的心中各有Top15啦

馬克這個分法老實說我已經覺得很準確的分法了

如果是要banking track 馬克會給出core schools,

Tech/ mkt track也有各自的core schools

Career wise選校的話, 主要還是根據 1. 你要的產業recruitors去不去以及2. recruitor hire international students的意願

這樣排下來可以有很多榜的:)

Tier2硬是要踢的話我會踢yale吧
原因說明如下
NYU/Cornell有台灣人最愛的finance industry當靠山
ross 跟tuck是永遠的m8候補生
加州兩家是西岸永遠的老二(沒人願意承認自己是老三) darden的case教學法可以幫你提高進去consulting機率到高點
duke近年來成長速度無人能及 早已成了IB/consulting的core school

算下來就只有yale不論在哪個方向想都比較難以及上上面幾家各自的優勢

[wsh]

Mark, I am interested to know your estimates on

1) number of IB internships (for MBAs) in an average year in US

2) How many people from Taiwan can get an offer each year

[Jason Lee]

I am here not to promote any particular schools. However, if what Mark says is true, those top consulting firms will only be looking at those "top 15" schools. Therefore, picking a wrong school will be deemed as a suicidal act. Consequently, with everything being equal, would it not be nice to enhance your opportunities by attending at a top 15 school according to Mark.

Don't be too obsessed to ranking and the same called "top 15". The same discussion has been written million times in BW forum, and there is no definite "top 15" or "top 20" schools. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion of what those "top 15" schools are. I don't think Mark is misleading people here. He basically gives us a list of schools which many will consider in the "top 15" range. On BW forum, the most often debated school is Yale, as some don't believe the school is in the top 15 range. But the same argument has been said to NYU, Cornell, CMU, and, even by some surprises, Georgetown (for IB purpose). Spending time debating which one is better than another is useless. Please use your energy and this forum resource into more meaningful discussion.

[Yimmiwan]

Jason, I think Modern already gives you answer. Even to IB or consulting firms, which schools are on their "top 15" lists are different and can vary year to year. That's why we all need to do our own research before deciding which school to apply. In dog year like 2003 when economy was tide and hiring numbers decreased, some IB and consulting firm didn't even visit some of their traditional "core" schools. So now do we still care which "top 15" there should be?

well... 不同目的心中各有Top15啦

馬克這個分法老實說我已經覺得很準確的分法了

如果是要banking track 馬克會給出core schools,

Tech/ mkt track也有各自的core schools

Career wise選校的話, 主要還是根據 1. 你要的產業recruitors去不去以及2. recruitor hire international students的意願

這樣排下來可以有很多榜的:)

[crossover45]

Come on! 15 or 16, is it that important?

What we need most on this board is more down to earth, insightful and relevant information about schools and career paths.

I personally appreciate for Mark's volunteer sharing about the information. We are not doing whatever others tell us to. We hear about it, think about it, and make our respective decisions.

[Charleneshen]

Mark, could you please suggest the relevant courses that might be useful to crack into consulting industry?