MBA選校建議: U of Pitts , U of Iowa

[taverna]

profile soso ~ 一直很怕今年沒學校念
好在最後終於有兩間學校給我AD
GMAT 670
TOEFL 100
W/E: 2.5 years as sales person

U of Iowa (Tippie) + GA (about USD 29,000)
U of Pitts (Katz) no GA

其實就$$來看 好像是很明顯的選擇
但我其實比較喜歡Pitt的location

未來我打算念finance + marketing
雖然有心理準備 外國人不管是intern還是畢業後 都很難在美國找工作
但總還是抱著一點希望 所以還是很care career service的部份
就以往job placement rate來看，Pitt低很多啊@@ 明明它比較靠東岸呀~
也有聽說Pitt的career service不是很好 不知道是不是真的呀?

Katz 似乎是還滿多台灣學生的 在台灣名氣也比較多人聽過
Iowa 則是已經有很多人問我地點在哪了@@ 台灣學生很少 似乎台灣也很少人知道這間學校
比較擔心就是未來回台灣的話 校友網絡Iowa似乎就弱很多


請大家幫忙提供一些建議囉~
尤其是知道U of Iowa的朋友 幫幫忙給點意見吧 Tippie的資訊在這邊實在很少阿

謝謝!!!

[Charlie Wang]

小弟不了解Pitt的部分,但來做一些Iowa的介紹,希望可以幫助你多了解Iowa
在台灣,Iowa的文藝和藝術比較有名,Iowa號稱有世界最好的寫作中心
所以大部分國文老師都有聽過愛荷華(愛阿華)

在商學院(Tippie)方面,會計是Tippie的強項,許多雜誌裡都把Tippie的會計PhD排在top 10
你要選的Finance排名也有逐漸上升的感覺,近幾年Financial Times把Iowa Finance排在世界Top 10
我想,這可能是在06 or 07那年,Professor Erik Lie發表了有關stock option backdating的文章
在當時是財經世界裡最大的新聞,美國SEC(證卷交易委員會)也因Erik的發現,改變了許多的規定
Erik也應此被Time選為2007世界前100最有影響力的人

至於就業方面,我個人很推薦Iowa的career service
他有一個就業中心 (Pomerantz Career Center),兩三年前是中西部最大的就業中心 (現在不確定還是不是)
以下是他的網站,你可以參考一下
http://www.careers.uiowa.edu/

我個人覺得因為學校小,所以每個人分到的資源相較比較多
就業中心的人會反覆修改你的履歷,有些課是專門訓練你的面試
像你提到的,Iowa的就業率還不錯,在畢業後三個月的就業率是98% (2008)
許多我知道的台灣人畢業後都去Chicago or Minneapolis工作了
我想今年的就業率會普遍下降吧

當然,Iowa也有缺點
最大的缺點可能就是在小城市吧,但所有Big Ten(美國中西部十大名校)的公立學校除了Minnesota外,
其他學校(i.e. Illinois, Indiana, Purdue)也都是在小鄉下

[chiehwu]

我是現在first-year MBA student，和你一樣，我去年也有拿到這兩家的admission。最後我決定到Iowa，到目前為止，學校、環境、生活機能都讓我很滿意。

從學校開始說好了，大部分的人都知道Tippie商學院最有名的是它的accounting，但是就MBA來看，最強的是在他的finance，在Financial Times排名Tippie MBA #9 in Finance Worldwide。我自己上了一個半學期的課，同學的素質我不敢講，但教授和老師絕對是A級以上。（可以看看Business School針對學校各項的給分，在faculty上，給了A等級）我本身主修 finance，副修operation mgmt。老師的上課方式讓我非常滿意。

大家最在意的Career Service，Tippie最大的好處是full-time MBA只收約65個人，而且有自己專屬Career Service office。和Charlie說得那個是分開的，但是兩邊的資源MBA學生都可以使用。但是基本上，如果應付得來MBA Career Service Office諸位advisor的功課，基本上你應該沒有甚麼時間去用學校的了！也就是說，Career Office其實逼學生逼得蠻緊的，從入學開始，固定兩個禮拜一對一的諮詢，會針對你的求職進度，比如說resume、cover letter、interview給你建議。老實說其實壓力還蠻大的，因為剛進學校還在適應美國的環境，還要接受課堂和 career service的兩面夾攻。如同Charlie所說，基本上MBA有自己專屬的Writing center，你的resume和cover letter，基本上交件以後都會在24 hours以內收到修改和建議的版本。不過我得承認，今年的景氣真的不太好，大家其實都有點挫折。但是Career Office還是會逼你做好該做的事，丟履歷，和校友Mock Interview。

生活機能基本上就是一個大學城，整個城市就是以學校的運作為重心。沒有太多的犯罪事件，晚上十一二點還可以看到有女生在路上慢跑。附近10-15分鐘車程有一家大型的Mall，裡面基本上美國的牌子都有(A&F/American Eagles/Hollingster)。另外也有兩家韓國超市，一家中國超市，兩家WallMart，一家Target。最近的outlet大概開車25-30分鐘左右會到，基本上就是該有的都有，但是沒有可以讓你逛到腿斷掉的地方。

其實我之前有介紹過我們學校, 可以參考: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30329&p=204918#p204918

大概就是這樣，還有問題我們在MSN聊吧

Go Hawks!!

[jackmilk]

先恭喜您拿到兩間不錯的Admissions,
我是今年Katz的first year student,希望回答的問題可以幫上你一點忙.
先以今年最先的Financial Times公佈的排名給你當參考,
Katz MBA排名約在50, 全美國排名25, 美國公立大學排名9,
課程部分的安排也應該是不會讓你失望的,由其你想concentration 在 Finance上,
在前年的時候我們的換了一位新的Dean,不僅在硬體設施多增加了一間Financial Laboratroy,
因為就Katz而言Finance一直是主力招牌之一,部分原因也是我們擁有相當傑出的教授,
尤其我們的Valuation 老師,相信你來上課後應該不會後悔的.
另外我們也跟CMU合作,在固定的學分內你也是可以去我們隔壁的CMU修課.
Deanu也大舉的改造Career Service的系統,
所以現在的Career Service應該跟你先前找的資訊有點不一樣,
一般而言的改履歷和interview,除了他們跟你會約時間之外,
私底下他們隨時是敞開大門歡迎你來,
如果你背景不是非常出色的話,他們也會提供意見教你該如何彌補你的不足.
就現在而言,Career Service的Director會很在意我們這一屆找intern的狀況,
你從新聞面也應該知道,經濟的不景氣其實很多人事都是凍結的,
然而她們會很積極的氣參訪公司請他們提供機會給我們.
但我覺得只要你夠積極和背景不弱的話,很多事情是事在人為的.
只因在Pittsburgh有很多知名的大公司,例如 Heinz, PPG, Deloitte, ALCOA, American Eagle, and Bayers...
而我們有一屆的學姐目前就在Deloitte工作.
或者你也可以從Project Course中表現自己的能力給Clients 看,這也是ㄧ個爭取intern or Full-time的大好機會.

而Katz在台灣的評價也是相當不錯的,也因為是畢業的學長姐的人多,
而在Pittsburgh的台灣同學會,會長是CMU的學生,也常會在這辦一些活動,
所以只要你的個性夠外向,相信你可以結交到很多U PITT以外的朋友,
相信這對妳的未來是有幫助的.

而關於生活能方面,Pittsburgh 在 2008年被Forbes評比為 全美第13適合居住的城市,
雖然並沒有像紐約或芝加哥這樣大都市的繁華,但該有的生活機能都有了,
由其Katz也座落在商圈之中,所以要購買一些生活用品事很方便的.
亞洲學生最在乎的中國,日本,韓國超市或飯館都有,
大型的購物商圈和IKEA也都有.

另外在五月或六月的時候我們會在台灣舉辦一個KATZ的新生說明會,
到時會由我們的里長伯跟各位通知,有任何的問題都歡迎在那時候來提出.

有什麼細節想知道的也歡迎寄信給我喔~~~
ckung@katz.pitt.edu

感激~~~

[Jason Lee]

Congrats. Both schools are great public schools in the US.

In short, if you go with money, potential job placements, ranking, then Iowa will be your best bet. If you like to live in a big city, Pitt will be a good place to go.

Comparison
Size of the city: Pitt > Iowa
Job placement Rate: Iowa > Pitt
Tuition Cost: Iowa (lower) > Pitt (higher)

Ranking: Iowa > Pitt
2009 USNews: Iowa 49 > Pitt Unranked
2008 BusinessWeek: Iowa Top 20 Public > Pitt Unranked
2009 Financial Times: Pitt 25 (US) > Iowa 36 (US)
2009 Financial Times, Finance Ranking: Iowa 9 (worldwide) > Pitt unranked
2007 Wall Street Journal: Iowa 31 (regional) > Pitt 41 (regional)

The following website provides more rankings.
Iowa: http://tippie.uiowa.edu/about/rankings.cfm
Pitt: Offical school website doesn't seem to have one.

Also, just a FYI, Deloitte isn't technically based in Pitt. Deloitte is a partnership and it has offices in almost all the states (both in Iowa and Penn) in the US. Many companies that were mentioned simply have just an office in Pitt. Please note that their headquarter locations are based in somewhere else.

[cmchen]

首先要說聲恭喜. 我是 Pitt/Katz 的學生, 但無庸置疑的 Iowa 也是個很好的學校. 上次在某個 case competition 遇到一位念 Iowa 的學長, 聊了很多, 感覺兩個學校各有各的好處. 所以最終還是要請你根據自己的需要來決定.

首先我完全不建議去參考任何的綜合 ranking. 基本上這兩個學校都不是那種「世界一流」, 那些上上下下的 ranking 數字對你個人的課堂經驗, 找工作難易, 薪水, etc... 其實關係不是很大. 還不如到學校參觀一下, 跟裡面的同學老師, 系上人員聊聊會更有心得. 還不如到學校看看教室的設備, 討論室是不是足夠, 圖書館資源是否充足等等...

關於課程: 我跟 Iowa 不那麼熟, 不過我相信兩所學校都有很好的課程, 都有很好的老師. Katz 的老師有多好我自己是知道的, 免費修隔壁某大學的課程也是另一個別人沒有的 bargain. Katz 因為 size 相對比較大, 而且有很多 part time 學生, 不但可以讓系上開出更多的課程, 而且與正在上班的, 常常工作經驗很多的 part time 學生一起上課/做 project 也可以從他們身上學到不少東西. 這點大學城的學校可能會做不到.

Career service: Katz 的 career service 最近被盯的還滿慘的... 他們確實(也因此)有很多 improvement. 除了一些數字(MBA 界有些美化數字的方法, 暫且不談), 很多東西很難以量化, 例如我不知道 class 小/大是否代表服務會更好/不好. 所以我建議問學生, 看一些可能不在網頁上的, 與我們切身相關的統計: 如, 去年 Katz 的國際學生找 intern 有認真的大概都找到了 - 我們都知道國際學生跟美國學生往往在找 intern/工作上是兩個世界. 又例如要去投銀上班這兩個學校可能都不是最好的選擇, 不管 career service 公佈的數字多好看/難看.

地點/找工作: 大學城跟城市相比, 就是通常大學城找工作得往外跑, 例如 Iowa 會到 Chicago, 然後可能得跟那邊的學校的學生競爭(i.e. 沒有主場優勢). 城市通常會有較多企業, 不管是總部也好, 設點也好, 都可以提供更緊密的連結, 互動, 課堂的實做的 project, 以及帶來的, 現實的 offer. Pittsburgh 各大企業裡的許多 Katz part time MBA 學生都是我們的資源. 對你來說, 想要修 marketing/finance 的話, 可能要先在這方面多做思考, 因為老實說, 身為國際學生這樣修課可能不是最好找工作. 所以可以的話可以多想想, 多問問, 看那邊會讓你更容易找到工作 <- 這才是重點, 到了錯的地方找不到工作, 別人找到都是假的, 反之亦然.

同學/校友: 我們的校友, 尤其台灣校友多, 這如你所說是件好事. 現在一定有高比例的亞洲學生不打算在美國呆一輩子, 也就是要回亞洲, 所以在亞洲的名聲或校友狀況會越來越重要. Class 小感情會比較好, 但同學校友就少, 有好有壞.

花費: 加上獎學金之後, 的確 Iowa 比較便宜. 不過看起來 Iowa 的生活費較高(資料來源: cnnmoney), 而且有些花費可能是資料看不出來的. 例如在 Pitt 唸書可能不用買車/養車/買汽油, 但在大學城可能車子會比較接近必須. 如果有意校內打工, 學校政策/是否容易拿到工作也是個可以考量花費/收入的因子.

地點/生活: Pittsburgh 的大小比一般的大學城大不少, 而 Pitt 位在市區, 生活機能佳. 不是每個大學城的大學生都可以走路上學, 走路去超市買菜. 不是每個大學城的學生可以坐公車去聽百老匯音樂劇, 職業棒球冰球足球, 還有一堆博物館. 附近光 mall 算一算應該有四五個. Pittsburgh 的歷史文化在整個城市留下了許多建築, 傳統... 這也不是每個大學城都有. 這些都可以列入考量, 例如: 如果生活機能不佳每天得多花多少時間交通, 買吃的等等, 這些時間原本可以拿來打工, 找工作, 唸書, 遊玩, 睡覺... 這些都是看不見的但確實存在的成本.

最後是各校系的一些特殊「賣點」: 現在想到兩個... Katz 的國際化一向是不錯的, 國際學生比例原本就高, 近兩年學生想「出國」的話可以挑的地點越來越多. 創業這一塊也是很有發展性的特色, 這城市有很好的生技醫藥產業, 有很好的電機資訊系所, 所以有很多新創的小公司, 和他們合作可以做到在一般大公司做不到的事情, 發揮更大的影響, 不管是算學分的課堂中或是不算學分的課堂外. 相信 Iowa 一定也有很多很有特色的賣點.

扯了一堆, 最後還是建議親自去看看. 這花費比起學費生活費只是很小一塊, 但卻能夠讓這投資有最好效果的機會增加許多. 兩個學校都是很好的學校, 所以去看看, 才最有機會找到一個最適合自己的學校. 祝好運!

[Jason Lee]

首先我完全不建議去參考任何的綜合 ranking. 基本上這兩個學校都不是那種「世界一流」, 那些上上下下的 ranking 數字對你個人的課堂經驗, 找工作難易, 薪水, etc... 其實關係不是很大. 還不如到學校參觀一下, 跟裡面的同學老師, 系上人員聊聊會更有心得. 還不如到學校看看教室的設備, 討論室是不是足夠, 圖書館資源是否充足等等...

I bet to differ to use the term of not being“世界一流.” I think Pitt is very good at medical field and Iowa is very good at writing. In the eyes of those people who are studying in those fields, they would think Pitt or Iowa is a world top class school.
I have to admit that ranking sometimes means nothing. A M7 student might be jobless after an MBA degree for years while a Pitt or an Iowa MBA student would have started a career with a 6 digit salary right after graduation. Nevertheless, you could calculate the odds. If you would prefer to play on the safe side sticking with statistics, maybe Iowa would provide you with a better comfort.

地點/找工作: 大學城跟城市相比, 就是通常大學城找工作得往外跑, 例如 Iowa 會到 Chicago, 然後可能得跟那邊的學校的學生競爭(i.e. 沒有主場優勢). 城市通常會有較多企業, 不管是總部也好, 設點也好, 都可以提供更緊密的連結, 互動, 課堂的實做的 project, 以及帶來的, 現實的 offer. Pittsburgh 各大企業裡的許多 Katz part time MBA 學生都是我們的資源. 對你來說, 想要修 marketing/finance 的話, 可能要先在這方面多做思考, 因為老實說, 身為國際學生這樣修課可能不是最好找工作. 所以可以的話可以多想想, 多問問, 看那邊會讓你更容易找到工作 <- 這才是重點, 到了錯的地方找不到工作, 別人找到都是假的, 反之亦然.

I agree that the location is very important but only for estate. Cornell and many other well respected schools are located in a small town. The fact is that most companies will pay for your transportations (i.e. air fare) to their offices. Is Iowa not having a local advantage? Iowa is arguably the best school in its state in the business field. First, I think you should value the fact that Iowa is located in a small town and yet, many major companies are willing to come to that small town to recruit. This unquestionably proves that companies indeed value the MBA degree offered by Iowa. Second, there are two private schools (CMU and UPenn) located in the state of Pennsylvania. Which would you choose first if you were a MBA HR recruiter picking students? Is It CMU or UPeen or Pitt? There is also a Penn State to keep in mind. Your imagination might give you a hunch.

同學/校友: 我們的校友, 尤其台灣校友多, 這如你所說是件好事. 現在一定有高比例的亞洲學生不打算在美國呆一輩子, 也就是要回亞洲, 所以在亞洲的名聲或校友狀況會越來越重要. Class 小感情會比較好, 但同學校友就少, 有好有壞.

I agree with the point that the percentage of Asian students will eventually return to their home country is getting higher and higher. However, first, if both schools are not as well known as it is suggested, I have found it hard to see the advantage of selling your school’s brand name in Asia for both schools. In reality however, I bet you would love to stay in the US for at least a couple years if not decades. As many people all have agreed, your MBA degree will only help you with your first maybe the second or the third jobs after your MBA degree. After a few years of experience, who would still care about the school you’ve attended when you return to Asia. I bet that they will just care about your US experience, which seemingly that Iowa offers a better position to help you to secure a position in the US compared to Pitt. After all, you are a business person, you have to care about your ROI, and if I’m not mistaken, Forbes ranked Iowa as #1 in return of investment.

花費: 加上獎學金之後, 的確 Iowa 比較便宜. 不過看起來 Iowa 的生活費較高(資料來源: cnnmoney), 而且有些花費可能是資料看不出來的. 例如在 Pitt 唸書可能不用買車/養車/買汽油, 但在大學城可能車子會比較接近必須. 如果有意校內打工, 學校政策/是否容易拿到工作也是個可以考量花費/收入的因子.
地點/生活: Pittsburgh 的大小比一般的大學城大不少, 而 Pitt 位在市區, 生活機能佳. 不是每個大學城的大學生都可以走路上學, 走路去超市買菜. 不是每個大學城的學生可以坐公車去聽百老匯音樂劇, 職業棒球冰球足球, 還有一堆博物館. 附近光 mall 算一算應該有四五個. Pittsburgh 的歷史文化在整個城市留下了許多建築, 傳統... 這也不是每個大學城都有. 這些都可以列入考量, 例如: 如果生活機能不佳每天得多花多少時間交通, 買吃的等等, 這些時間原本可以拿來打工, 找工作, 唸書, 遊玩, 睡覺... 這些都是看不見的但確實存在的成本.

It is very smart to compare the cost of living between two cities. Although Iowa may appear to be more costly to live compared to Pitt, if you were to examine the data closely, you would see otherwise. Granted, Pitt is overall about 97% cheaper to live compared to Iowa City. Based on CNN Money, only Housing cost and Healthcare cost are cheaper in Pitt. Groceries cost is 7% higher, utilities cost is 8% higher, transportation cost is 5% higher in Pitt compared to Iowa City. Being an international student, I assume that you will not purchase a house immediately after you arrived in the US and furthermore, your health insurance is covered by your school. Thus, while Pitt offers those two items cheaper, you, as a student, will not be benefited from living in Pitt. What you will need as a student is grocery shopping. Also, you will need to pay for your utility bills. You will definitely be benefited by living in Iowa City. As far as the transportation goes, in order to take public transportation, you will be paying 5% more if you were to live in Pitt.

扯了一堆, 最後還是建議親自去看看. 這花費比起學費生活費只是很小一塊, 但卻能夠讓這投資有最好效果的機會增加許多. 兩個學校都是很好的學校, 所以去看看, 才最有機會找到一個最適合自己的學校. 祝好運!

In short, your MBA opportunity is only limited by your imaginations. You would do well regardless of the school that you will be attending. I agree that both schools will offer different positive experience. I stick with my points earlier, and I think Pitt will provide you a very nice city life, but that Iowa seems to edge Pitt on other terms.

[cmchen]

一些比較一般的建議, 跟特定學校, 地區... etc 比較沒有關係的.

A M7 student might be jobless after an MBA degree for years while a Pitt or an Iowa MBA student would have started a career with a 6 digit salary right after graduation. Nevertheless, you could calculate the odds. If you would prefer to play on the safe side sticking with statistics, maybe Iowa would provide you with a better comfort.

統計數字的確是一個決策時非常好的參考, 但如果能有更深入的, 可能在公開資料上找不到的資料, 也許會更好. 許多放在網頁上的統計資料也許並不適用於每個人; 如果能針對自己的狀況夠詢問校方/校友/學生以獲得更深入的資訊的話, 可能會有很大的幫助. 畢竟每個人的狀況都不同.

I agree that the location is very important but only for estate.

我相信這句話是有可能引起爭議的. 一般來說, 地緣因素可以帶來學生(尤其 part time), 企業, 額外的課程, 合作案. 地緣可以帶來與企業的互動, 不管是直接來徵才的, 要來做 project 的或平常聊聊天的, 不管是跟 faculty, staff 或者學生. 地緣可以減少企業徵才的花費所以可以增加意願. 地緣應該不止影響房地產跟地價.

It is very smart to compare the cost of living between two cities. Although Iowa may appear to be more costly to live compared to Pitt, if you were to examine the data closely, you would see otherwise. Granted, Pitt is overall about 97% cheaper to live compared to Iowa City. Based on CNN Money, only Housing cost and Healthcare cost are cheaper in Pitt. Groceries cost is 7% higher, utilities cost is 8% higher, transportation cost is 5% higher in Pitt compared to Iowa City. Being an international student, I assume that you will not purchase a house immediately after you arrived in the US and furthermore, your health insurance is covered by your school. Thus, while Pitt offers those two items cheaper, you, as a student, will not be benefited from living in Pitt. What you will need as a student is grocery shopping. Also, you will need to pay for your utility bills. You will definitely be benefited by living in Iowa City. As far as the transportation goes, in order to take public transportation, you will be paying 5% more if you were to live in Pitt.

所以統計數字如果能深入去看的話, 的確可能看到更多的東西. 地緣也不止影響房地產跟地價, 至少還有物價. 雖然 cnn 說 Pittsburgh 生活費較低, 但我不認為兩個城市的生活費有巨大的差異, 都是相對大多數的大都會來說很便宜的地方. 兩個城市各有其好處, 房價低的通常租金低, 有人會說平常不出門所以用不到 healthcare (by the way, 純好奇, Iowa 的學生應該也會有到外面看病的機會?), 比 grocery shopping 的物價可能更要比華人超市的物價, 不過我知道 Pitt 的學生如果不買車就是搭公車跟校車, 這是包含在學雜費內的(i.e. 之後是坐免錢). 當然如果要精算還是可以多方考慮.

I stick with my points earlier, and I think Pitt will provide you a very nice city life, but that Iowa seems to edge Pitt on other terms.

我相信在學校的差異並不像是火星跟地球那麼遠的狀況下, 任兩個學校之間應該都有各自的特色與好處, 不至於有某個學校完全勝過另一個學校. 以現在這個例子, Iowa 有當地的企業, 有距離中西部中心很近的優勢, 有許多企業前往徵才; Pittsburgh 自己有產業有城市, 距離數個美東大城也不遠. Iowa 的 class 小所以有許多人不那麼多的好處, Pitt 的人多一點, 地點市區一點所以可以開一些也許別人不會開的課, 如和公司一起做 project 的課程, 跨領域課程跟 MIS...等等. 相信兩個學校會有各自的最適合的人, 而選擇最適合自己的學校才是這個過程中最需要注意的地方.

然後是比較 specific 的...

I bet to differ to use the term of not being“世界一流.”

同意, 所以有用括號圈了起來.

Second, there are two private schools (CMU and UPenn) located in the state of Pennsylvania. Which would you choose first if you were a MBA HR recruiter picking students? Is It CMU or UPeen or Pitt? There is also a Penn State to keep in mind. Your imagination might give you a hunch.

很抱歉我的想像不能給我一個 hunch :p 各學校會有各自的特點, 例如某 fortune 1000 公司找某職位時跳過了賓州的兩個私立學校, 而選擇到公立學校. 他們有他們的原因, 我並不能妄加猜測. 但不同的學校會有不同的定位, 不同的特色, 不同的訓練, 不同的學生風格, 企業也知道這些而去選擇最適合他們的學校. 賓州的確有很多好學校, 如果真的要列公私立加一加還可以列出好幾所; Pitt 在 local (西賓州, 東 Ohio, 北 West Virginia)並非沒有對手, 但是在本地市場的確還是有一些優勢. (廣義的)美東的學校是很多, 但美東的公司也相當的多, 各公司/學校可以各取所需.

After all, you are a business person, you have to care about your ROI, and if I’m not mistaken, Forbes ranked Iowa as #1 in return of investment.

Pitt 在 Financial times 的 Value for money rank 是世界第八, 在美國的排名是第一. 所以... 在這方面的表現應該不至於太差.

還有什麼問題可以與我們聯絡...前面有個學弟已經留了 email 了

[Opeman]

關於選校，有些客觀因素可以先行上網蒐集資料比較，諸如
-排名
-就業
-地點
-華人校友人數
-該商學院的課程重點

如果以上幾點均無法有明顯差距時，我蠻建議申請者在拿到OFFER後很難抉擇時，親自飛一趟學校比較

-校園生活環境
-教學設施
-上課氣氛
-順便認識該學校的學生，並且請教相關問題

這些項目不容易從網站上一窺全貌，但是一趟不到5,6萬塊的美國之行卻能給你深刻的體會，以及第一手的資訊，並幫助你很快下決定。

[Jason Lee]

Tradeoff is the term should be described here. To what extend are you willing to scarify one for another. I totally agree with Openman. One should visit the schools if it permitted. Obviously everyone has his/her own reason(s) when it comes to choose a MBA program. Factors could be rankings, tuition, location, family tradition, or a combination of anything. I am not affiliated with both schools, and I do not promote or represent Iowa or Pitt. To compare two schools, I simply just listed public data. As you mentioned, public data might be misleading sometimes, and it ties to what I mentioned before, a Pitt or Iowa student does not mean he/she will NOT receive a 6 digit starting salary upon graduation.

FYI: The following is just for argument's sake. I do think that it is beneficial to discuss back and forward. Maybe our perspective students would see something here. However, for those who are not interested, please discard the followings.

統計數字的確是一個決策時非常好的參考, 但如果能有更深入的, 可能在公開資料上找不到的資料, 也許會更好. 許多放在網頁上的統計資料也許並不適用於每個人; 如果能針對自己的狀況夠詢問校方/校友/學生以獲得更深入的資訊的話, 可能會有很大的幫助. 畢竟每個人的狀況都不同.

Consent. Obviously, it would nice to discuss with someone like those people who have or are attending to your target schools. Please keep in mind that information could be misleading not only from public data, but also from local students.

我相信這句話是有可能引起爭議的. 一般來說, 地緣因素可以帶來學生(尤其 part time), 企業, 額外的課程, 合作案. 地緣可以帶來與企業的互動, 不管是直接來徵才的, 要來做 project 的或平常聊聊天的, 不管是跟 faculty, staff 或者學生. 地緣可以減少企業徵才的花費所以可以增加意願. 地緣應該不止影響房地產跟地價.

I agree that part time students would be benefited from living in a big city due to the locations of their jobs. However, I assume that you and other readers most likely are full time students. I do not know why you emphasize that much on part time students. I do think having part time students in a full time classroom is a two-edged sword. Indeed, they are most likely with local companies and you could benefit from the networking with them. In fact, BusinessWeek just published an article talking about the importance of the networking.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... op+stories

Here is the slide from the article for Iowa, and for some reasons, there are about 45 schools listed and Pitt is not included.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/03 ... mni/34.htm

Nevertheless, how many international students really receive a job from a networking event (meaning your job is really provided by your “friends” at least 80% of the entire process)? I do see American students are benefited more than international students are when it comes to “networking.” What the downside of having part time students? Obviously, they are experienced and most likely going to be local residents. In a classroom, you can hear all their great speeches and it is great to learn from them. However, your time to “speak up” also decreases proportionally.
Maybe Pitt is very special, but I think recruiters normally come at a scheduled time to conduct interviews. Even if it were true, how many international students get a job via networking (to my previous point)? I do think companies come to the campus or invite students to their offices for any sponsored events. The only major cost for a college town is “time.” On the other hand, we are living in a 21st century. Teleconferencing is done very often and many college towns are well equipped with this technology.

所以統計數字如果能深入去看的話, 的確可能看到更多的東西. 地緣也不止影響房地產跟地價, 至少還有物價. 雖然 cnn 說 Pittsburgh 生活費較低, 但我不認為兩個城市的生活費有巨大的差異, 都是相對大多數的大都會來說很便宜的地方. 兩個城市各有其好處, 房價低的通常租金低, 有人會說平常不出門所以用不到 healthcare (by the way, 純好奇, Iowa 的學生應該也會有到外面看病的機會?), 比 grocery shopping 的物價可能更要比華人超市的物價, 不過我知道 Pitt 的學生如果不買車就是搭公車跟校車, 這是包含在學雜費內的(i.e. 之後是坐免錢). 當然如果要精算還是可以多方考慮.

I agree that big city does provide more stuff. That was why I have focused on the size of the cities. However, in order to enjoy the benefits, you might have to make some scarifies. You might be able to find an apartment for $600 a month. That number could offer a very cozy apartment in Iowa for you. On the other hand, that price would probably just give you a “less-than-ok” apartment with a bad neighborhood in Pitt.
I am sorry that I was being clear on the insurance issue. Iowa students obviously are not supermen, and they are indeed vulnerable to virus. Being an international student, you are required (in most cases) to purchase insurance provided by the university. It is a fixed cost and you could not avoid it. That is why I mentioned you will not be benefited from the lower insurance cost in Pitt. However, receiving a GA position at Iowa, I think your insurance is also covered. You might want to take that into your considerations.

我相信在學校的差異並不像是火星跟地球那麼遠的狀況下, 任兩個學校之間應該都有各自的特色與好處, 不至於有某個學校完全勝過另一個學校. 以現在這個例子, Iowa 有當地的企業, 有距離中西部中心很近的優勢, 有許多企業前往徵才; Pittsburgh 自己有產業有城市, 距離數個美東大城也不遠. Iowa 的 class 小所以有許多人不那麼多的好處, Pitt 的人多一點, 地點市區一點所以可以開一些也許別人不會開的課, 如和公司一起做 project 的課程, 跨領域課程跟 MIS...等等. 相信兩個學校會有各自的最適合的人, 而選擇最適合自己的學校才是這個過程中最需要注意的地方.

然後是比較 specific 的...

I agree that studying in a big city will receive something whether it is positive or negative. I think that our prospective student is trying to major in finance. For the argument’s sake, I did look into what Iowa has to offer. Iowa has an electronic market for its correct prediction of future events. Also, Iowa has “The Hawkinson institute of Business Finance.” I am not familiar with the admission or anything with that institute. However, it seems like enrolled students have almost 100% placement rate even in this troubled financial market. The job locations are nationally (i.e. NYC). In addition, there are other programs that MBA finance students could participate. It seems like the finance department at Iowa is much enriched compared to the one at Pitt.

http://tippie.uiowa.edu/hawkinson/employment.cfm

很抱歉我的想像不能給我一個 hunch :p 各學校會有各自的特點, 例如某 fortune 1000 公司找某職位時跳過了賓州的兩個私立學校, 而選擇到公立學校. 他們有他們的原因, 我並不能妄加猜測. 但不同的學校會有不同的定位, 不同的特色, 不同的訓練, 不同的學生風格, 企業也知道這些而去選擇最適合他們的學校. 賓州的確有很多好學校, 如果真的要列公私立加一加還可以列出好幾所; Pitt 在 local (西賓州, 東 Ohio, 北 West Virginia)並非沒有對手, 但是在本地市場的確還是有一些優勢. (廣義的)美東的學校是很多, 但美東的公司也相當的多, 各公司/學校可以各取所需.

Indeed, American companies do not just take students from top private schools (unlike Taiwanese companies' only take top public school students). For other majors, maybe Pitt is the top one choose in PA, but when it comes to business major, especially for finance, maybe it is little bit hard to believe that is the case.

[chiehwu]

這個討論串很有趣...

我想補充一些Jason沒有提到關於Iowa的資訊。就Finance來說，一年級的full time MBA學生有機會加入Henry Fund，這個基金基本上是由學生負責操作的基金。他之所以有名是因為他的操作績效成績很漂亮，這不是MBA office，所以這個成績應該不是美化的.. 如果對投資和實務操作，股票分析有興趣，這個是一個很好得磨練機會。

這是Henry Fund的網頁。
http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/henry/index.htm

這是CNBC對學校Henry Fund的報導。
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26419215/site/14081545

另外，Iowa 學生當然也要看醫生，但是樓主應該是拿到GA，也就是說，你的保險有大半部份都是學校幫你cover，而且學校的Nursing應該還算有名。講到GA，我稍微提一下好了。這裡的Graduate Assistantship，包含：Graduate Assitants position(一學期約4000出頭薪水), 適用in-state tuition, 另外每學期約有2600獎學金直接抵扣學費。也就是說，學費方面幾乎完全被financial aids cover了，所需負擔的，就是你的生活費了。如果把GA考慮進去，其實是用很低的投資拿到不錯B-school的學位，算是投資效益很大吧！至於生活費，如前面討論的，應該算便宜吧...

再來，Tippie在Iowa州內各大城市Cedar Rapids/Davenport/Des Moines，都開有Partime MBA，加上本身的EMBA，以及香港的IMBA(香港會有學生過來上課 交流一學期)。並不是說，Iowa MBA的network，就是在只Iowa CIty，只是我同意Jason說得，所謂的Networking，其實對美國學生的效用遠比國際學生來的大。

至於和業界合作，這點非常有趣，因為Iowa最有名的B-school，就是Tippie，所以當地知名企業有很多的Projects和學校合作。而一些課，主要就是幫這些客戶作評估和顧問。比較有名的課像是Rapid Continuous Improvement，就是實地到公司去，瞭解公司的運作和問題，提出建議。

其他的可以參考:
http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/fulltimemba/ac ... tudies.asp

以上一點補充。

Go Hawks!

[cmchen]

這一整個討論串的確是有其價值(我就學到了很多東西). 只有公開資料的話, 資訊的來源的確是比較少, 有深入的資料會能夠更深入的討論. 資料的確有可能造成誤導, 而正確的看出資料背後的意義我想是每個人都知道該做的事情.

在這個討論串中, 對於地點或地緣所造成的好/壞處並沒有一致的共識, 對於 offer 的來源及徵才的流程也沒有一致的共識. 我相信這方面的資訊版上非常的多. 許多公開資訊是否適用於國際學生我想討論也很多. 關於這些, 我們學校的同學們已經把該說的說完了, 我想大概就是這樣.

兩所學校的 finance 那個比較好我想在這個 thread 也不會有壓倒性的共識, 雖然我可以繼續下去(萬一有需要打筆戰..也不是沒經驗啦 :p), 雖然我的學校被與友校沒有關係的版友講成跟被擊倒一樣慘實在不會很高興 (by the way, 原作者好像想要修 marketing/finance). 我們有我們的特色, 我們知道我們的特色在哪裡. 我確信 Iowa 是一所值得尊敬的學校, 兩校都有很多 finance 的課程與老師, finance 這塊兩個學校都有相當的重視, 相信兩校都會有各自的特色與專長. 就像 Iowa 的 Henry Fund(雖然我們也有類似的東西 :p), 還有我們的全新實驗室.

還有一些沒有辦法有共識的比較小的事情, 例如醫療支出, 例如怎樣的錢可以在 pittsburgh 租到怎樣的房子. 我很驚訝與兩校沒關系還可以知道 $600 可以在 pittsburgh (&iowa) 租到怎樣的房子, 也許是看過我們做的新生手冊? :p 但我必須說有些不住本地的人的資訊會與我這個本地人的想法不大相同. 醫療支出也是, 我以為全美國的醫院/保險怎麼算錢都差不多(貴), 就算有保險, 「掛號費」不便宜, 「自付額」更不便宜...? 無論如何, 聽到 Iowa 的醫療保險不錯, 總是一件值得高興的事.

如果我們系上/學校/城市因為努力不夠, 不能提供足夠的公開資訊供作比較, 這是我們的問題. 如果因為我們哪裡沒做好所以收到了大家的鞭策, 這是我們的幸運. 但身為學生, 如果有人願意和我們聯絡獲得更多資訊, 我們會盡我們的全力來服務, 也感謝大家的資訊與指教, 謝謝大家.

[Jason Lee]

There is no need to really distinguish which school is truly “better.” Finding an ideal job regardless of the locations after graduation is what really counts (in the reality at least). How to utilize the chips in your hands is a personal choose. Please remember that keep your eyes on the price.

Both schools provide wonderful health care facilities. In the USNews, both schools’ primary cares are ranked in top 20 (Top 7 for Iowa and Top 20 for Pitt). Pitt's medical research field, however, is slightly ranked higher than Iowa's.

As far as health insurance goes, I do not know whether it would be cheaper to see a doctor in Iowa or in Pennsylvania. However, since you have student health insurance, the only thing to really compare is your deductible amount (out of pocket expense) regardless of the true total cost to see a doctor.

Hopefully no one, especially Pitt’s representatives or Iowa’s representatives, has taken anything personal. Maybe local students could share more insightful information here publicly in a neutral way. Again, congratulations to the newly admitted student(s), and also may both local students have wonderful careers after school.

[taverna]

非常感謝以上各位的意見
當初真沒想到迴響如此熱烈呀(汗)
不論是現在Tippie or Katz的學生以及校友，
或是版友Jason lee
真的非常感謝 您們提供了很多不同的思考面向
也的確激發出我各種不同的考量
接下來 我會好好思考 選出最適合自己的program
也正在考慮五月份先去美國看看兩所學校~
總之 我會再好好思考的!!!

謝謝大家的幫忙及意見~

[davidlee0222]

AT 670兩年半經驗可以上UT Austin, UIUC, OSU等約二十名左右的學校
樓主可以再衝衝看
工作因人而異,多半取決於背景
即便地緣關係影響都不大
因為反正都是外國人,大環境不景氣哪邊有面試就飛哪裡
跟學校公布的綜合數據關係也不大
隔壁有工作不代表我們就有工作
各排名也僅供參考
學生滿意度跟雇主滿意度取決的九成
不代表學生有適合自己生涯的課能選
只有依自身興趣自我累積能力
校名只能讓我們有多點面試機會
會不會有工作還是看個人修行