Duke Law Anyone?

[richardcjy]

Dear all,

I am heading to Duke this fall. Anyone else decide to go to Duke, too? Please PM me or reply, and we can get in touch before we fly to Durham:)

Thanks!

[johnrobers]

Not very important. Just For Your Info.

What Happened at Duke?
Sex. Race. A raucous party. A rape charge. And a prosecutor up for re-election. Inside the mystery that has roiled a campus and riveted the country.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12442765/site/newsweek/

[losoloso]

Duke 是很白的一間貴族學校(就是白人居多 in east seaboard)
雖然周邊 location 區不太好，但號稱南方哈佛的杜克沒那麼差拉
據消息同學透露，它跟西北法學院的競爭才剛開始呢！( 只是，未何它不跟 HLS, YLS 比? 怪哉 )

[hungji]

仔細看了這篇報導，很有意思!
推一下！

[cseetoo2]

HLS 等級是不一樣的，西北或杜克恐怕再過十年也追不上。

[johnrobers]

說得含蓄，萬一明年小弟連 duke 都去不了, 那 .....

[hungji]

Duke Law 排名會掉吧?

Duke 是很白的一間貴族學校(就是白人居多 in east seaboard)
雖然周邊 location 區不太好，但號稱南方哈佛的杜克沒那麼差拉
據消息同學透露，它跟西北法學院的競爭才剛開始呢！( 只是，未何它不跟 HLS, YLS 比? 怪哉 )

[losoloso]

you tell me.

Duke Law 排名會掉吧?

Duke 是很白的一間貴族學校(就是白人居多 in east seaboard)
雖然周邊 location 區不太好，但號稱南方哈佛的杜克沒那麼差拉
據消息同學透露，它跟西北法學院的競爭才剛開始呢！( 只是，未何它不跟 HLS, YLS 比? 怪哉 )

[justforwhat]

HLS 等級是不一樣的，西北或杜克恐怕再過十年也追不上。

這是指US News的排名還是哪一方面的數據？追不上是指教學品質還是研究成果還是畢業生起薪還是『general impression』？HLS的『等級』是什麼？誰跟HLS是同一個『等級』？Stanford跟Yale嗎？（假設是Stanford跟Yale的話) 你認為Duke跟NW十年以內追不上Stanford或Yale嗎？那Chicago或Penn或Columbia追不追得上呢（假設它們跟HLS不同等級)？

HLS(或是Standford或Yale）有它傑出的地方。要說它的『學術聲望』比Duke或NW高，我也同意。但要說它跟Duke或NW有十年以上的等級之差，則得先提出等級是怎麼劃分的。1~3, 4~14, 15~30?十年之後還會是這樣分的嗎？

PS：我不是上述任何一校的學生。

[callastar]

HLS 等級是不一樣的，西北或杜克恐怕再過十年也追不上。

HLS也不是每個領域都是在Top level吧...
如果每個人志趣不同，那要怎麼比？

LLM是依個人志趣來專攻某一領域，譬如說IP或是公司、併購等等。
換句話說，只要你專攻的那個領域強就好了。

譬如說假如我要念IP的話，我就會選擇Berkeley或是Stanford，然後把寶貴的20學分集中在選修這間學校的精華IP課程一次上到爽...

對一個明確想要念IP的學子來說，即便HLS擁有全美最頂尖的國際法學者、公司法大頭、憲法權威等等....
但你應該很清楚的瞭解到，其實那都根本跟你一點關係也沒有。

LLM的學生基本上，都已經是唸過法律多年甚至已從事實務過的老鳥了，應該知道自己要選甚麼課、要走甚麼路...

好好規劃一個別人十年也無法超越你的專屬修課計畫，遠比你學校是不是能在十年追上別校還重要的多。

[cseetoo2]

這是指US News的排名還是哪一方面的數據？追不上是指教學品質還是研究成果還是畢業生起薪還是『general impression』？HLS的『等級』是什麼？誰跟HLS是同一個『等級』？Stanford跟Yale嗎？（假設是Stanford跟Yale的話) 你認為Duke跟NW十年以內追不上Stanford或Yale嗎？那Chicago或Penn或Columbia追不追得上呢（假設它們跟HLS不同等級)？
HLS(或是Standford或Yale）有它傑出的地方。要說它的『學術聲望』比Duke或NW高，我也同意。但要說它跟Duke或NW有十年以上的等級之差，則得先提出等級是怎麼劃分的。1~3, 4~14, 15~30?十年之後還會是這樣分的嗎？
PS：我不是上述任何一校的學生。

In terms of shaping the landscape of American legal education and the prominence in American legal history, there is no other law school in the United States that can purportedly be placed within the same prestigious rank as HLS.
We are talking about a law school that is the oldest in Continental America, that has produced more famous legal scholars, judges, practitioners in American history than any other law school. Using this as the criteria (though not the only one availabe, you can always resort to other quantitative measures, e.g. starting salary, employment rate), it could have been an understatement to say that either Duke or NW is "ten years behind" HLS - the difference could be insurmountable, at least in foreseeable future.

[cseetoo2]

LLM的學生基本上，都已經是唸過法律多年甚至已從事實務過的老鳥了，應該知道自己要選甚麼課、要走甚麼路...

好好規劃一個別人十年也無法超越你的專屬修課計畫，遠比你學校是不是能在十年追上別校還重要的多。

I can only say that there is no such thing as a "custom-made curricula that will give you a competitive advantage over others in next ten years." American lawyers are typically subject to mandatory requirements of continuing legal education (CLE). A year of general LLM in an American law school does not give you any advantage over others (or that your competitive edge fades faster than you think) - one's never-ending desire to strive for professional excellence does.

[justforwhat]

In terms of shaping the landscape of American legal education and the prominence in American legal history, there is no other law school in the United States that can purportedly be placed within the same prestigious rank as HLS.
We are talking about a law school that is the oldest in Continental America, that has produced more famous legal scholars, judges, practitioners in American history than any other law school. Using this as the criteria (though not the only one availabe, you can always resort to other quantitative measures, e.g. starting salary, employment rate), it could have been an understatement to say that either Duke or NW is "ten years behind" HLS - the difference could be insurmountable, at least in foreseeable future.

Interesting. You're talking about history here. I actually think the most influential law school in the late 20th century is Chicago Law. And in terms of legal education, the most innovative law school in the last ten years is NW.

Your statement has two elements: 1. HLS is in a different level than Duke or NW (according to what you said in your reply, HLS is in a level "in its own"); 2. Duke and NW cannot catch up HLS in 10 years. Then you define your criteria of the category as "the shaping of the landscape of American legal education and the prominence in American legal history."

I agree with your statement, because there's nothing to disagree with. Based on your criteria, of course Duke and NW cannot catch up HLS in ten years. How could anyone change the history? It's nonsense to ask whether Duke or NW can surpass HLS in ten years in terms of "prominence in history" since it's history.

No doubt HLS is the most famous and perhaps the most authoritative law school in America right now, but to say Duke and NW is a "level" behind HLS is to ignore many aspects, other than the "historical status", that Duke and NW (or other elite law school that are not in the same "level" as HLS) have surpassed HLS.

Again, I do not disagree HLS is leading in many aspects in the legal academia world, but the gap is narrowing. Would you say HBS is a "level" better than Wharton? Or Harvard medical school is a "level" better than Johns Hopkins?

The legal world is special in that it is very hierarchical and enclosed. The success is measured by relative status rather than absolute measurement (such as money in the business or knowledge in medicine). Thus an early leader (like HLS) can
solidify its lead by mutual-promoting of its alumni (of course that happens in business or medicine too, but more effective in the legal world given the special circumstances). Therefore, it probably will take longer time for any other school to challenge the status of HLS under your criteria. But, as any brand, rivals would appear (for example, Yale) and the value will diminish.