快快出國吧別再考慮排名了(歡迎光臨版主總結啦)

由 **Charles Pan** » 2006-03-11 01:24

don't worry for them lah. i guess all top school applicants share the same passion to prove and even transcend themselves - the highest level of maslow's hierarchy of needs, no matter they admit it or not. quite a few people only want to climb to the top at whatever price. after you guys enroll in this fall, you'll soon find great peer pressure - fellow students around you will be talking about mc/ib all day long as these jobs offer the most $$. be careful. a harvard mba may bring you wealth, but doesn't necessarily make you a better human being. just as the harvard mba book title implies: don't forget who you are. it's so easy to get lost in 5-star hotels, business class flights, and meeting with key executives, and that's why so many consultants/bankers hate their jobs but can't get out. just my 2 cents.

well, don't get me wrong. i think a top mba still offers great value and can be an eye-opening experience to some people and i do know many decent h/s/w mbas.

back to the point, as this discussion thread suggests, I do agree that anyone should start preparation early if he/she really wants mba. do note that i mean to prepare early, not just to apply early. that's partly why i consider this discussion board to be meaningful. if you applicants proactively introduce these mba-related information and lessens-learned to your college juniors, they will be able to set up a mighty goal early, put in reasonale efforts and thus do a much better job when they apply for mba. excellence is a habit.

i choose to share my thoughts here as i somehow feel a bit regret to apply too late in my career. my opportunity is high and the benefits from a mba degree are marginal. although i got scholarship, my ROI might not be as satisfying as it should have.

thanks for your patience.

由 **whoopsnow** » 2006-03-17 21:33

Venture \$m[1]:don't worry for them lah. i guess all top school applicants share the same passion to prove and even transcend themselves - the highest level of maslow's hierarchy of needs, no matter they admit it or not. quite a few people only want to climb to the top at whatever price. after you guys enroll in this fall, you'll soon find great peer pressure - fellow students around you will be talking about mc/ib all day long as these jobs offer the most $$. be careful. a harvard mba may bring you wealth, but doesn't necessarily make you a better human being. just as the harvard mba book title implies: don't forget who you are. it's so easy to get lost in 5-star hotels, business class flights, and meeting with key executives, and that's why so many consultants/bankers hate their jobs but can't get out. just my 2 cents.

well, don't get me wrong. i think a top mba still offers great value and can be an eye-opening experience to some people and i do know many decent h/s/w mbas.

back to the point, as this discussion thread suggests, I do agree that anyone should start preparation early if he/she really wants mba. do note that i mean to prepare early, not just to apply early. that's partly why i consider this discussion board to be meaningful. if you applicants proactively introduce these mba-related information and lessens-learned to your college juniors, they will be able to set up a mighty goal early, put in reasonale efforts and thus do a much better job when they apply for mba. excellence is a habit.

i choose to share my thoughts here as i somehow feel a bit regret to apply too late in my career. my opportunity is high and the benefits from a mba degree are marginal. although i got scholarship, my ROI might not be as satisfying as it should have.

thanks for your patience.

dear venture,

is it a strange thing if an mba student doesn't pursue a "financial/consulting/accounting" job? I mean, would an mba student feel lonely if he/she chooses to do his own business which probably has little to do with finance and or consulting, because MOST of his peers are taking different classes from his? Is this situation particularly obvious in those super schools?

由 **hahahaha** » 2006-03-20 15:37

版主是個有頭有尾的人既然開了版就要來做個收尾讓這篇討論讓以後讀的人有一個完整的感覺也不一定是完結篇啦歡迎繼續回應

其實開版之初主要還是看到許多同學被AT 托福搞的七暈八素的時再於心不忍再加上咖啡店上版面實在太多關於牛校的討論我想會讓大部分同學很挫折吧所以決定寫一偏自己的看法沒想到引來如此多的迴響但好像還是牛人居多希望這篇寫完能看到多普羅同學的迴響

明明一年出國的同學裡面大部分都落再百大以外偏偏咖啡店的感覺好像一年台灣有數百人進入Top 20 各位看一下台灣2005年的托福平均好像是200左右吧名列亞洲之末僅勝過日本有學過統計的同學就知道該怎麼解讀了吧大部分人用這種托福成績是不可能百大的啦有輕鬆一點厚後來看了另一篇店上的統計才發現我的解讀沒錯一年能擠進TOP20的同學步過數十若再用統計的角度來看這些同學及學校都僅能當統計學裡的 outlier(傑出阿但不列錄考慮板上還有一個outlier的現象那就是搞的好像超多人要去IB上班考上牛校就是要去IB 茄~~)

我想用savana大大說的一句話”如果可以，試試看念所謂的名校；如果不行，試試看練好基本功。名校是爬山的好工具，但不代表能攻頂。非名校也是爬山的工具，但不代表會跌落山堐” 說的真好想起國中時搬上能考上建中的不過三五建中時能考上第一志願的也非多數台大畢業後還蠻多人找不到好工作出國也非全部名校用來給板上各為鼓勵鼓勵還慢恰當的如果可以當然要往前擠阿如果不行就該適可而止阿不可能大家都讀建中的啦建中的同學也不是全部上台大 (從小到大我相信”不行”的同學居多歐)

AT 測驗其實是很詭異的我相信很多人就算再拼五年也破不了700 因為到了600以上的題目就滿多有爭議套句江僕說的每個答案都超好但你要挑一個最好的或者答案都超濫但你要挑一個最不濫的聽起來還是很公平但這個考試是給碩士的入學測驗也就是說大部分同學都有一定的生活體驗了什麼是最好什麼是最濫時再因人而異這就是為啥有些答案就算告訴你你都不覺得他是對的因為你是大人啦有自己的主見很難被說動啦
以我為例吧重小到大考試對我來說都不算太有挑戰性就連托福也是輕鬆應付但當我抱持輕鬆心態面對AT時就發現不對勁了尤其拿到那些所謂高分題時往往一拍兩散有的一秒就看出答案有的就算答案告訴我我也不服氣很想把ETS 的教授們叫出來激辯一番

就在最無助的時候到咖啡店上看到某一位牛人的開釋說要把ETS的邏輯套到自己身上變成自己的邏輯天哪這是哪們子的理論這個世界之所以有趣不就是每個人有不同的想法嗎再者我從小到大就以邏輯性強著稱出了社會也常常能在一團混亂的談判桌上與一群老外找出驚人的結果而獲得他人的贊賞要我改邏輯那我是百頒布願意萬一改不回來那誰要負責哈哈哈莫非華頓的同學們都改造過了哈哈哈經過深思熟慮厚我決定就此打住其實當初我也有一股傻勁想非Top10不唸想要保持一身優良血統哈哈哈這不就是sayyes大大說的讀名校就像吸毒嗎校友會就像集體吸毒我真的很有感觸想想以前在校園裡就是有一些怪胎都考上大學了還背著建中的書包不放不知道他要背到何時這就是名校光環吧深怕他人不知其實這感覺是會上癮的每每有人問起台大的同學大學唸哪阿台大的同學總事故做謙虛說沒有啦噢我在公館唸的啦我有和同學聊過為什麼要降講後來我們一至認為那是一種病想用謙虛來包裝我們的不凡ㄏ哈哈扯遠啦

想想再讓我拼半年700應非難事不過我絕得這個過程並非我要的況且我已出社會多年不再需要文憑來加持而要的是真功夫所以我很膚淺的照著排行榜從20~80挑了七所來申請最後再來決選決選的方式很簡單就看誰給我的獎學金多我就去啦我當時的想法也就是反鎮我不讀Top20 那UIUC 和UP 或 Rutgers對我實在都差不多我不是很贊成把學校經過”重度剖析”啦沒有人降搞的啦大概就大陸人或台灣少數人人才降搞而且除了牛校外(國際性) 其他學校都有地域性像Rutgers再東岸真的很有盛名老美可能不知道他排什麼名次但你說你讀RUTGERS 一定說好的啦我好幾個客戶都降講但到了台灣好像就是不怎麼樣的學校我強烈建議各位不要把學校拆開來再組回去(頂多看看專業排名) 對你一點幫助也沒有讀MBA就是要讓自己國際觀或看事情宏觀一點嘛

現在的我賣了幾張公司的股票加上學校的獎學金來到美國經濟壓力很輕我一點也不覺得沒有去保持血統是一建後悔的事因為每天都有寫不完的報告 presentation, meeting 生活緊張壓力也很大收穫更是豐富讀完兩年後再回直場上好好發揮雖然沒有TOP 10的光環但我相信我職場上不輸給那些TOP10的學生同學們加油 !

對了這篇完全是想寫給非牛人的觀點這些觀點我覺得很值得分享給在痛苦中的同學若造成牛人不悅請指教

由 **Charles Pan** » 2006-03-20 18:39

to whoopsnow,

this can be a "why mba" question, and the answer varies for different individuals.

according to the brochures, a mba is supposedly to make you a "business leader" or at least "manager", right? however, based on my own bulge bracket i-bank experience, i believe that i-banking (consulting not much better) really has little to do with "management". i-bankers and consultants are referred as "professionals", not "managers". they are safe plays and can actually be a fast track to management positions, but there's no guarantee and not everyone fits into these sectors.

the peer pressure also varies in different schools. wharton/chicago/columbia are quite finance/consulting obsessed, but a number of people in stanford/berkeley would prefer high-tech company/start-up to financial jobs. a google project manager doesn't sound worse and make less than a morgan stanley associate.

personally, i'd rather to run a successul company with bankers/consultants working for me rather than to be a consultant/banker (don't hate me, i-bankers and consultants. i think these are great professions, but i don't enjoy it that much). as for you, i hope a mba enables you to control your life, not to be controlled by flavor-of-month type of jobs.

my advice: be yourself and pursue your dream. f**k the noises.

由 **wasibenny** » 2006-03-20 19:18

版主說的蠻有道理..
總覺得這裡浮出檯面的都是牛人
知道自己的弱勢在哪，再加以補強就好了
不要妄想一步登天...
像我已經在國內拿一個MBA了
出國只不過想開開眼界...學習自己缺少的..
最後看能不能再把郭洋妞...= =!!
這就是我出國的目的

由 **yoyu.tw** » 2006-03-20 19:59

我在看留學生相談版的時候真的以為台灣一年有一兩百個讀前二十大 ^^
想上來討論我想讀的 600 213 程度的學校都不敢po出來
怕沒人回應我 .........................忘記其實還是蠻多人與我同在的^^

我看過一篇大陸牛兒從460分拼到700分的文章
寫著他考五次的心得總結....也的有血有淚感覺他的人生到此已經完整了
有句廣告台詞人生應該將時間浪費在美好的事物上
假如你覺得準備AT很美好......幹的好........那就繼續拼繼續考到極限

不過要衡量一下成本效益原則（CR很愛考）你花的這段時間值得麼
每年新聞都有某某人考多高分因為沒有上台大醫學系公費生決定重考
大好的青春年華就要再去重考了實在很不值得......時間配置的問題真的需要好好想清楚
知道自己要什麼⸮ 出國為了幹什麼..........................玩樂^^ 也不賴啦...........

由 **doways** » 2006-03-20 20:18

[quote="yoyu.tw"]我在看留學生相談版的時候真的以為台灣一年有一兩百個讀前二十大 ^^
想上來討論我想讀的 600 213 程度的學校都不敢po出來
怕沒人回應我 .........................忘記其實還是蠻多人與我同在的^^
quote]

有阿!小弟就是這個範圍的~呵呵

因為，小弟的學校大概都是五十到八十

雖然也很想有名校的光環，但是AT不佳所以好像也沒啥資格

可是，我相信好好學應該對我還是有很大的幫助

由 **流浪水手** » 2006-03-20 20:59

大家都有獨到的見解
就小弟所聽到的而言
幾乎所有唸top15MBA的大學同學都在HK或Singapore工作
領著人人羨慕的global pay
但是也有著我們無法想像的work load
所以端看自己的選擇摟
像小弟比較注重休閒生活完全不想加班五點一到馬上走
就不適合這種工作那top MBA對我來說也沒什麼意義
畢竟MBA就是"職業介紹所"阿
另外雖然各個學校的課程和同學等級不同
但美國人的英文程度應該不會因為學校不同而不同吧
所以建議大家不管在什麼學校都盡量把握聽說英文的機會
不要天天跟台灣同學混在一起

由 **sophiechen** » 2006-03-20 22:08

流浪水手 \$m[1]:大家都有獨到的見解
就小弟所聽到的而言
幾乎所有唸top15MBA的大學同學都在HK或Singapore工作
領著人人羨慕的global pay
但是也有著我們無法想像的work load
所以端看自己的選擇摟
像小弟比較注重休閒生活完全不想加班五點一到馬上走
就不適合這種工作那top MBA對我來說也沒什麼意義

像我這種注重休閒生活又申請top15的是不是有病
難怪沒有offer :PP

由 **fujen64** » 2006-03-21 03:04

Hi Venture,

Thanks for your sharing and deep insights in the ib careers.

Indeed most of Taiwanese MBA students including me have some misconceptions and want to do consulting /ib just because we thought most MBA graduates should pursue this career path.
However, the MBA program really gives me broaden view, help me to recognize what I should position myself and what career I have strong interests to pursue.

I am glad to know you got admissions from Haas and hope we can meet on Berkeley campus soon.

Jimmy

Venture \$m[1]:to whoopsnow,

this can be a "why mba" question, and the answer varies for different individuals.

according to the brochures, a mba is supposedly to make you a "business leader" or at least "manager", right? however, based on my own bulge bracket i-bank experience, i believe that i-banking (consulting not much better) really has little to do with "management". i-bankers and consultants are referred as "professionals", not "managers". they are safe plays and can actually be a fast track to management positions, but there's no guarantee and not everyone fits into these sectors.

the peer pressure also varies in different schools. wharton/chicago/columbia are quite finance/consulting obsessed, but a number of people in stanford/berkeley would prefer high-tech company/start-up to financial jobs. a google project manager doesn't sound worse and make less than a morgan stanley associate.

personally, i'd rather to run a successul company with bankers/consultants working for me rather than to be a consultant/banker (don't hate me, i-bankers and consultants. i think these are great professions, but i don't enjoy it that much). as for you, i hope a mba enables you to control your life, not to be controlled by flavor-of-month type of jobs.

my advice: be yourself and pursue your dream. f**k the noises.

由 **knobhill18** » 2006-03-21 03:24

板主有始有終
頂上去

由 **hahahaha** » 2006-03-21 04:25

哈哈哈 K兄謝啦

由 **mail2ccl** » 2006-03-21 10:38

水手兄說的真好，我也是注重休閒生活的人。

TOP等級的學校不一定適合每個人，未必大家都喜歡在壓力下成長，

雖然大家都想唸名校 :laugh

，出國把英文練好是真正的目標，

找到好工作是英文練好後的成果，每個人對於好工作的定義也不盡相同，

推水手兄這句話"不要天天跟台灣同學混在一起"，可是我發現，如果不常

跟台灣同學混在一起，會被說些閒言閒語，不知水手兄有沒有此困擾。

久了以後，小團體就出現了，彷彿又回到大學時代，彼此"道不同，不相

為謀"的情況。

由 **sklpeng** » 2006-03-21 10:55

咦~
應該是我們實行的隔離政策太徹底
連閒言閒語都沒聽到過ㄟ....... :PP

回到正題
這種人際關係的問題應該不只是念MBA才會遇到
(可能會因在國外而被highlight)
所以大家還是努力朝自己的目標邁進吧~

由 **knobhill18** » 2006-03-21 11:30

我以自己的經驗來說
從來沒聽過閒言閒語(也許有但是認識台灣人太少所以沒聽過)
系上除了我只有一個成大的台灣學生
除了系上的台灣朋友一隻手數的出來(也許是我人緣不好)
多認識朋友是沒錯但是出國唸書不就是要個多元化民族鎔爐
不然在台灣唸研究所就不用離鄉背井花錢找罪受
我是回台灣的時候台灣朋友抱怨都沒消沒息是怎樣
MSN不上 SKYPE不開
不過台灣老朋友打通關打一輪就搞定了

快快出國吧 別再考慮排名了(歡迎光臨 版主總結啦)

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快快出國吧別再考慮排名了(歡迎光臨版主總結啦)