請問該如何選擇 purdue & washington U in St.Louis

[brucechiang]

這是我僅有的2個offer了，可是目前很困惑要選哪一間，因為我是要修finance的，這兩間的finance似乎沒特別強~~
以成本，整體排名及知名度來說，我想purdue應是較好的選擇
但wu位於大都市內，又是傳統名校，課程設計較purdue活潑多變

我很難做決定，前面有些前輩指點過，說若修finance(IB,Consulting...)purdue 將不是一個好選擇，那WUSL呢??
以顧問的說法，他是建議我選PURDUE，他認為career service優於WUSL~
然而我個人是比較喜歡WUSL的課程，因為看起來比較符合我的興趣，選修課程的選擇也比較多，感覺不會只有偏重corporate finance....

我想聽聽其他不同的看法??感溫~~

[lpwpete]

Purdue 我投一票!
學費,排名皆較優!

[sweetymanman]

suppot Purdue
.....but purdue is not that good at finance

[MarkHsu]

Neither...

If you want to do IB/finance (not corp finance)/consulting, neither one of these schools will be good enough.

[brucechiang]

嗨~MarkHsu:
我的選擇不多，因為我的分數不高。若能選wharton&chicago，我不會傻傻的選其它的。
都不選的話，我今年就出不去了。

[MarkHsu]

I don't know your situation: age, work experience, etc so it's hard to give you advice.

But, I do know people who have attended these schools who were disappointed by their experiences at these schools.

Fundamentally, it's a question of drive. How badly do you want it, be it a career in consulting/investment banking/etc.? So the first natural measure is school attended.

Many people have in hindsight said to me that had they known there was a such a gap between a top 15 MBA program and other schools, they would have waited, re-taken the GMAT and aimed higher.

As an alternative, you may also consider developing your own "Blue Ocean" strategy and apply to European schools. Please refer to the lively thread started by "wsh" on IESE.

I am also certain that if you can get into schools like Wash U/Purdue in a competitive year like this year, you'd also have a shot at RSM, Oxford, Cambridge, IE, SDA Bocconi, etc.

Alternatively, if time is on your side, getting a MSF from LSE or LBS might be a better path to a career in finance. Normally, I only recommend pursuing a MSF (and only from the top UK & US schools) to people with 0-2 years of work experience. The reason is that a MS is treated the same as a Bachelor's by IBs and consulting firms. (Anyway, i am digressing)

[brucechiang]

嗨~MarkHsu

我相信你說的絕對有道理，也是根據過往經驗和歷史數據所分析出來評論。你的專業讓很多人覺得受用。可是我不能再浪費時間了，因為我現在已經30歲了，在corporate banking工作了5年。
我只是很納悶，top 15 以後的學校總要有人唸，也ㄧ定會有人唸，那些人怎麼辦??
其實，只是top 15 可以讓你走的輕鬆點，機會大一點，但仍不能保證什麼。而top 15 以後的學校要小心了，因為會辛苦一點，機會小一點，但還是有機會。

[MarkHsu]

(Just want to clarify, I am not directing this at Bruce. Just using this thread to clarify some common misconceptions I see on this board. And yes, I know not everyone wants to do IB/Consulting so I am speaking only to those people are thinking about entering these industries.)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for some industries going to a school outside of the top 15-20 (in the US), it is zero to nil.

I would suggest you talk to the current students at the the top 15 schools and ask them how hard it is to crack finance/consulting. (There is already a drastic drop-off in consulting/ib recruitment when you move from top 15 to top 20--CMU, Indiana, Austin, Emory, USC, UNC)

My suggestion as an alternative if you don't want to go to Europe is Georgetown. At least, I have met bankers/consultants who have graduated from this school over the past five years. (Please don't give me examples of people who attended a no-name school 10-20 years ago. That was a different era.)

In response to your question, where do the students that attend schools outside of the top 20 go? They don't (very unlikely) go to banking/consulting.

Even if they do, the bankers I have met who didn't go to top 20 schools who end up in banking often find a tough road. They often have to start at a junior level.

So what's the problem with working from a junior level?

1) Junior level means junior level pay. It means that you have invested all this money, but you start out at the same position as this hot shot NTU Finance graduate who is 21 or 22.

2) I can work my way up, you say. In theory, yes, but in reality, difficult. It takes three years to go from analyst to associate, but promotion is not guaranteed. All the while, you see people who perhaps are less experienced than you move ahead of you on the corp. ladder just because they have a so-called "top 15/20" MBA.

I know everyone's entitled to their own opinions and they ultimately have to make their own decisions, but I just wanted to present a more realistic view of an MBA and the "real world," which unfortunately is usually lacking on this board.

[Mango]

excellent viewpoint

[robbiechen]

你就不要想進IB或是Consulting就好了
還是能在美國找到Corporate finance 的工作的
去WU吧

[訪客]

Dear Mark

很高興你能夠來這發表你的看法
咖啡店是給台灣那些想要去國外留學的人而設的
not just only for 那些top 10 school 的人
我們希望透過互相分享,互相支持,並且多面向的討論來讓這各地方向心力越來越強
這會是一個正向循環

我們需要的是一個有質感的討論
Ex:

I don't know your situation: age, work experience, etc so it's hard to give you advice.
.....
....
...

....
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for some industries going to a school outside of the top 15-20 (in the US), it is zero to nil.

I would suggest you talk to the current students at the the top 15 schools and ask them how hard it is to crack finance/consulting. (There is already a drastic drop-off in consulting/ib recruitment when you move from top 15 to top 20--CMU, Indiana, Austin, Emory, USC, UNC)
...
.....

而不是像下面這個樣子

Neither...

If you want to do IB/finance (not corp finance)/consulting, neither one of these schools will be good enough.

我能感覺到你的話很有影響力
但是否能顧及那些所謂的current student, 跟對該校有興趣的人,Even畢業校友
就我而言,已經有不少人跟我談到這個問題
在這樣下去,那些真正需要我們幫助的人會怯於在這發言
也有不少人跟我談到,在咖啡店如果不是大家所謂的好學校,他們基本上是不會發言的,因為咖啡店給它的感覺就是那些所謂好學校的人進來的地方
也有人跟我反應今年為什麼跟去年的聚會越半越少,越來越沒有第一年那麼熱烈
且覺得今年申請的人感覺很冷淡
這不是我們的用意,我們也不想讓它變成這個樣子


我想發表這篇的文章的brucechiang動機很單純
它只是想要在這兩間學校做個取捨,分析優劣而已
它應該也覺得咖啡店maybe能夠給它一個方向,縱使答案不是它所想要的
本身也會有收穫



Dear robbiechen

你的文章直接點名學校不當發言,本人依版規直接刪除



Mike

[吳]

我個人還滿喜歡Mark的發言
說一點現實面的殘酷給大家知道 也是不錯的資訊

而且,都要唸mba了還怯於發言的話,到美國要怎麼生存呢?

open to discuss

[lpwpete]

我贊同mikelee的看法!
因為商咖愈來愈narrow!快變成名校發言區!
但我並不是主張限制發言! 我認為每個人在發言的時候應該先經過思考!
當你在別人板上發言,主要目的是你感到有興趣或希望幫助對方才會花時間提共寶貴的意見!
但如果出發點是製造反效果或另有商業目的就不可取!
希望所有準留學生都能踴躍發言,不論是名校或百名外的學校!
這樣才能幫助到大多數的人!

[liwuu]

簡單說說我的想法,以consulting為例子~~
身為consultant接到客戶的case,是在客戶本身有限資源下,想辦法去解決客戶的問題
提出的方案與解決方法是客戶公司資源所無法執行的,那就是天馬行空
提出的方案與解決方法跟客戶公司所遇到的問題無關,那就是文不對題

有不同的想法很棒,不論是鼓舞或現實,正反兩面...但post文的位置卻往往造成不同的效果

To brucechiang,
既然你對兩間學校課程已經研究一番,那麼選你想唸的
唸書到最後,後來覺得不論唸什麼,念有興趣的最重要...看得出來,你比較喜歡WU in St. Louis而且是經過自己思考過...

至於顧問所說的career service,你不妨直接跟兩間學校的學長姐接觸請教,或許會有更深入的了解!!

[wsh]

Thanks Mark for your complement on my strategy but the truth is that I am just being very lucky...

Bruce, I think EU schools like IXXXXX, LXX and IESE (sorry to other EU MBAs but I am really not sure about them...)really offer a better chance to go into IB here. ( IESE is also strong in MC, check out my posts)

Think of London as another NY but with only 3 main MBA programs to draw from; and of course 3 MBA programs are not enough, that's why you will see US MBAs working in London IB...
In additional to this, less than 10% Brits work in IB in London so it is a very diversified environment. (which means more opportunities for international students)

If interested, you can actually get a quick feed back from IESE MBA admission office on your chances of success before spending NTD5000 and the time for the actual application. Please do make use of this service from the link below.

http://www.iese.edu/aplicaciones/mba/in ... sp?lang=en

PS: I think my comment is relevant for Bruce's desire to work in IB/MC, but of course please feel free to delete my comment if it is not...