Ask Mark/Top MBA/Career Discussion

[MarkHsu]

Just so that I do not hijack another thread and I don't offend anyone, I am starting a different board.

Feel free to ask questions (in Chinese or English). My replies unfortunately will only be in English due to my limitations in expressing myself in written Chinese.

[lpwpete]

Thank you for spending time!
Could you introduce youself?

[brucechiang]

若不是top school也可以發問嗎??還是只有top 15得學校才可以問??
因為我還是有很多問題想問!

[MarkHsu]

Re: Charity's questions

Are you going to say that if i want to get in finance/consulting company, top 15 to top 20 may not be a good platform? The chance for students from top 15 to top 20 to get in is extremely hard? I do not understand the nature of finance/consulting, but shouldn't past working experience and industry specific take into consideration?

Answer:
Before I answer this, let me explain the consulting we are talking about. Consulting is of course a broad term. Among MBAs, consulting usually refers to Management/Strategy Consulting, which takes a "big picture" view of business, such as offering advice to "C-level" managers. The big global firms are McKinsey, BCG, Bain, AT Kearney, etc. But, there are also very respectable boutique firms that no one in Taiwan has heard about and who have a thriving practice. Even within this industry, there is an heirarchy.

The difference between these strategy firms vs. Big-4 firms (DTT, EY, KPMG, PwC) is that the big-4 firms offer more business process advice, how to streamline/improve operations. Some people from the big-4 firms may disagree, but for the most part that's how the industry is viewed.

There is also IT consulting. Some names that come to mind: IBM, EDS, JD Power, SAP, Oracle, etc., but for the most part they are very technical consulting and don't involve big-picture strategy.

So having this understanding in mind, let's address the initial questions.

Why is it difficult for graduates from non-top MBAs to enter strategy consulting?

1) The business is about people. Clients pay a lot of money to get advice from these top firms. Most projects start at a minimum US$500,000, which will buy you at most just a few months worth of advice only.

2) When the clients pay that kind of people, they want to see top people. One way to gauge "quality" is school. For the consulting firms, it is safe to hire HBS/MIT/Stanford/Wharton grads. After all if they **** up, what can you say? They are afterall the best the world has to offer. (I am not saying this is right or fair, but that's how corporates think.)

3) From the corporate view, I am paying ~US$150,000/year in salary alone. If I add in taxes, overhead, travel, the cost can easily double or more likely triple. So each newly graduated assoicate is costing me ~400,000-500,000. For that I better get the "best."

4) Even though it may seem like there are a lot of consultants running around, the fact is that the openings are limited. For Asian students, the market is even tougher because consulting has had a limited history in Asia. So as a Taiwanese/international student, you realistically have few options. It wouldn't make any sense to have a Taiwanese student even if he/she went to Harvard to work out of the Boston or LA office. As a Taiwanese, your comparative advantage is Greater China.

I can give you some stats. In Taiwan, only McKinsey has a real presence. McK has hired between 6 to 8 new assoicates a year. I'd say roughly half of the hires are ABCs and half of the hires are native Taiwanese. So basically, that's about 3 to 4 spaces who for people who did their undergrads in Taiwan. By my estimates, there are about 60-75 Taiwan who attend a "top 15" MBA program per class. So from just a statistical point of view, it just gets harder and harder as you move away from the top 15.

5) This is not saying that somewhat attending Georgetown or any other school is not as smart as someone who attends a so-called top school. But the MBA offers a "signaling" effect. Perhaps McK will automatically invite someone who attends Stanford to a Rd 1 interview, whereas it may take a lot of effort from someone who is not at a core recruiting school to get McK's attention and secure even an invitation.

Re: Past working experience for consulting

This is not that important for consulting. Sure it's important to have professional experience, but it's not a critical factor. What is more important is pure brain power for consulting. Again, it's a people business.

1) Summer internships for Consulting is very rare. Spaces are very limited.

2) You can be from almost any background to enter consulting, so long as you can crack the case interview.

3) Previous professional experience can be helpful only if there is a specific need for it. If you have say an energy background, you might prove particularly helpful in Singapore/Middle East where there is a large energy industry. Same with tech manufacturing for Taiwan/China.

I hope this helps.

[Opeman]

What Mark mentioned is exactly the case for management consulting.

Very insightful !!!!

[lpwpete]

Hi Mark,
May I ask you what different beteen USC Ibear and Marshall?
I know one is 1 years program and another is 2 yers progaram, and Ibear requares more work experience.
I am wondering that after graduate, do they get the same certificate?
Moreover, who have the better opportunity to find job in USA after graduate?
Thank you!

[Opeman]

Mark 所提到consulting firm 對於Top MBA的篩選，我在這邊可以作一點補充。

的確，Management consuling firms 裡頭公認最頂尖的三家 Mckinsey, BCG & Bain 徵才都是以 Top 15 MBA為主. 其中BCG ( Boston Consulting Group) 今年 Greater China Team 在招 Full time 的時候，全美五站共面試了150-170個 top 15 MBA 大中華區的學生，40個人進入New York final round, 最後只發了20個offer.

20個 offer裡頭，純台灣長大（在台灣念大學的）只有兩個。其餘均是ABC，或是在美國唸大學&工作的台灣人和大陸同學。

[modern]

補: 樓上的Opeman是其中一個..... 牛牛牛牛牛 哞～～ :)

--
我這邊也補充一下一些關於Greater China地區作諮詢的info

有興趣投中國的不妨考慮Roland Berger

這家歐系顧問公司根本上已經越來越" local"了 每年從中國大陸本土招很多頂尖的好學生進去作analyst 薪資我不方便透露 有興趣的可以ping我 但小弟我只知道analyst的薪資 Associate level 我不清楚, 我的推測是會低於一般Top5 consulting firm 的global pay,但操的程度不會低,

ATK, BAH, Monitor也可以投 這是Top3之外的最佳選擇 ATK我不熟, 但BAH 還有monitor都有面試我們班的同學
連我這邊亞洲學校都可以拿到面試機會代表他們比較不會像"麥波貝"那樣程度的看身家背景 值得一試 ps... summer intern我們班跟科大那邊都被刷的差不多了....喵的 拿的到interview是一回事 要能進的去還是十萬分的高難度

有過finance背景的Merver Olyver Wyman剛在上海成立分公司 我不知道他們今年招不招 不過美國Top學校有的是門路進去

IBM Accenture 還有 Cap gemini這幾家血統不純薪水也不太純的 還是可以試試的

老話一句 大家加油阿！ 在美國歐洲還有香港上海打拼的各位 小弟我....資質駑鈍.... 不跟你們爭 作個報馬仔娛樂一下各位就好

[MarkHsu]

Bruce:

Feel free to ask questions.

[MarkHsu]

Re: USC IBear vs. USC Marshall

I think if your primary objective is to find a job in the US, the two-year program is a better program for that purpose. However, I do realize that Marshall is a much more difficult program to get into.

Because the IBEAR program is almost entirely international and is small (~60 the last time I checked), I don't think the profile fits US recruiters.

I do believe IBEAR program is good if you are sure you want to have a career in Asia, especially if you have a family business to return to or are interested in leveraging USC's network in Asia, which is impressive. I don't know if you have had a chance to attend USC events in Taiwan, but the few gatherings I have attended, I was impressed by the strength (by this I mean the prominence) of their alumni and how organized they are. I believe USC is one of the few schools that has a full-time alumni office in Taipei.

An alternative to the IBEAR program if your #1 objective is to find a job in the US is to apply to the full-time MBA program at UC Irvine and UC San Diego. I believe they are at about the same level of difficulty in terms of admission. Low to mid 600 GMAT would give you a good shot at admission for these programs.

For those with lower GMATs, high 500's to low 600's, Claremont and Pepperdine are also options in the Southern California area.

[wsh]

One reason we have few consulting internships is that there are normally less projects in summer.

Although IB may be more picky, I think there are more opportunities and people from Taiwan generally have an advantage in interviews with good number skills.

I am not sure yet, but I think sales and trading (IBD is worse than consulting...) can offer a good work/life balance. Hours in London are like 0630 to 1930, and free weekends all year round of course!
If u go into IBD, you will be spending more than half of your weekends...

[cburger]

As a current Marshall full-time student, I just wanna share my opinions about the difference between the 1-year and 2-year programs.
It doesn't mean that it will be 'easier' to get a US job in a 2-year program. What you have is only 1 more year to prepare yourself and/or network. If you are looking to stay in US, think about what is the main difficulty that's preventing you from getting a job in US? If you lack applicable work experience, then 2-year program will be good for you because the additional courses/education can supplement your experience. If you are confident about your work experience, and just want the degree and opportunity to work in US, then I think IBEAR would be a better choice. Employers/Recruiters don't view IBEAR and full-time differently (in some sense, they might even prefer IBEARs because of their work experience), and all internationals students (except for mexican and canadian students) have to deal with H1-B visa. Hope that helps

[Anita0716]

hi,Mark~
可以也請你簡單介紹沒有finance背景的 MBA想回Greater China作finance 的介紹嗎?如主要有哪些公司哪幾種工作我們可以應徵,薪資,生活型態,每年職缺名額等等? 感謝!!

[MarkHsu]

Anita,

Do you have something specific in mind because finance is rather broad? If you can narrow the scope of your question, I can try to take a crack at it.

Mark

[GOTOWEST]

US NEWS上 Marshall的就業率挺低的,只有81%, 有沒有人能解釋一下
是不是因為加州華人太多,同質性太高競爭反而激烈了 ?