Ask Mark/Top MBA/Career Discussion

[Opeman]

To Charleneshen:

On the basis of my own interview experience, the following courses are very useful regarding cracking the case interview.

Microeconomics
Marketing Strategy (3C, 4P, Channel)
Operation/ Supply chain
Competitive Strategy (5 forces analysis)
Managerial Accounting (Cost analysis)
Corporate Finance (Basic valuation )

Unfortunately, you won't be able to complete all of them by most of the internship interviews (around mid Jan to Feb).

[davidlee0222]

I thing Mark has extraordinary contribution to our economy
these fruitful sharings can significantly help western MBA applicants or business related fields.

[Charleneshen]

Unfortunately, you won't be able to complete all of them by most of the internship interviews (around mid Jan to Feb).

Thanks for your answer, Opeman.

According to your statement, I am wondering how did you prove those interviewers that you are qualified to this position? Or something else (characteristic, work exp, professional familiarities on specific industry) determined your way to consulting?

[Yimmiwan]

Such valuable information. Thanks Opeman.

It's the first time I hear someone discusses useful classes that help consulting interview process. Now, since we can't finish many of these core courses before interview time, what one can do on his own to prepare, besides keep practicing case solving?

Also, I have heard that there are usually less positions available for summer internship in consulting, but one may not need the summer internship to land a full-time position with consulting firms. How real is that? Especially for someone who has not much business background?

[MarkHsu]

Re: "Top 15"

It is a general grouping and yes, I realize there are 16 schools on the list. As many people have said, it depends on your objectives. For banking, NYU comes right after the M7. For consulting, brand recognition and tapping into America's "old boys network," maybe Yale, Tuck & Cornell are better choices.

This is not a hard and fast rule. Does that mean if you go to schools outside of the top 15, you have no shot at consulting? Definitely not, but it all comes down to probabilities.

[MarkHsu]

Summer Internships in Consulting: Why there are fewer positions in consulting

I think this has a lot to do with the nature of a consultant's work. Most engagements are on-going projects that usually last beyond 8 -10 weeks, the length of a typical MBA internship. Whereas, in banking, an intern can make an immediate contribution, such as evaluate a company (equty research), put together a pitch (investment banking) or build a financial model.

[Opeman]

To Charleneshen:

Once you get the interview invitation from consulting firms, the only way to prove yourself qualified for this job is to crack the case. No matter how good you are in the "fit" interview, if you bomb the case you won't be able to get any job offer even you are the Top 1 MBA student.

To Yimmiwan:

1. The best thing you can do for summer internship interview is 1. To read as many case books as possible- a efficient way to accumulate your business knowledge and even sharpen your common sense. 2. Practice with your partner.

2. It's true that without a consulting experience in summer won't decrease your chance of getting into consulting firms for full time.

Lastly, consulting firms in general are look for people who can:

A. Solve the problem with great analytical skill
B. Presentable in front of clients
C. Team player

And that is the reason they use case interview to screen the candidates.

[Opeman]

Summer Internships in Consulting: Why there are fewer positions in consulting

I think this has a lot to do with the nature of a consultant's work. Most engagements are on-going projects that usually last beyond 8 -10 weeks, the length of a typical MBA internship

What Mark said is very true.

And that's the reason that some consulting firms, say BCG, are unwilling to hire summer interns because 8-10 weeks are not long enough to find appropriate projects for summer interns and evaluate their performance objectively.

[modern]

To Charleneshen:

Once you get the interview invitation from consulting firms, the only way to prove yourself qualified for this job is to crack the case. No matter how good you are in the "fit" interview, if you bomb the case you won't be able to get any job offer even you are the Top 1 MBA student.

To Yimmiwan:

1. The best thing you can do for summer internship interview is 1. To read as many case books as possible- a efficient way to accumulate your business knowledge and even sharpen your common sense. 2. Practice with your partner.

2. It's true that without a consulting experience in summer won't decrease your chance of getting into consulting firms for full time.

Lastly, consulting firms in general are look for people who can:

A. Solve the problem with great analytical skill
B. Presentable in front of clients
C. Team player

And that is the reason they use case interview to screen the candidates.

Shawn baby:

What would you suggest one to do if he/she has B, C but lacking of A??

(拋磚引玉~)

[流浪水手]

As time goes by, I'm more and more confused about the definition of "analytical skills". What exactly does that mean? I have had this question for a long time because I see many corporations besides consulting demand "good analytical skills" as a requirement for employment when they recruit MBA students as financial analysts or marketing analysts etc.

Does "good analytical skills mean that one can find out a problem, trend, or solution in a messy situation? Could Mark or Opemen please explain this term? Thanks a looooot!

[MarkHsu]

I think analytical skills = critical reasoning skills.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of Taiwanese students have a hard time grasping this due to the educational system in Taiwan because everyone is taught to solve for a "right answer." This is of course very different from the US/Western educational system, which emphasizes reasoning (the process) rathern than an answer.

I think the difference in culture is very evident on this board. (Just using it as an example) Taiwanese do not like debate and always want an answer. For example, which school should I kick out of the top 15? (refer to earlier discussion)

Whereas the western approach to problems is developing a "framework" to a problem. I was educated in Taiwan for 1st & 2nd grade and it took me a long time before I "unlearned" what I was taught in Taiwan and had the confidence to exercise my judgment.

From what I have observed, the overwhelming majority of Taiwanese students are very intelligent. However, they lack the practice and the confidence to express original thought.
This can be improved with time.

I'd say the best way to improve analytical/critical skills is to engage in debate and also take up broad interests outside of just business. I think topics such as philosophy, literature and history help you think in different ways.

Consultants aren't looking for "answers" per say during the interview but how you'd approach a problem.

To throw out a McKinsey 1st round interview that I have heard iin the past:

"Estimate the number of beetle nut stands in Taiwan."

The point is not to arrive at an actual number, but to see how you'd tackle this problem.

[Yimmiwan]

To Charleneshen:

Once you get the interview invitation from consulting firms, the only way to prove yourself qualified for this job is to crack the case. No matter how good you are in the "fit" interview, if you bomb the case you won't be able to get any job offer even you are the Top 1 MBA student.

To Yimmiwan:

1. The best thing you can do for summer internship interview is 1. To read as many case books as possible- a efficient way to accumulate your business knowledge and even sharpen your common sense. 2. Practice with your partner.

Are case books the ones published by Wetfeet or Vault? How about Harvard Business Review (I am not even sure if the review is all case review or something else, like other business journal)?

I have a feeling that to successfully crack a case, besides all the preparations and practices, there is a "it" that makes a person better than another to crack the case, whatever that "it" is (does it sound like those E-bay commercial? probably shouldn't watch too much TV...). Anyone wants to comment on this?

[Opeman]

Are case books the ones published by Wetfeet or Vault? How about Harvard Business Review (I am not even sure if the review is all case review or something else, like other business journal)?

Either Wetfeet or Vault will do. And one can also read about B-school case books, which are usually written by MBA students from B-schools' consulting clubs based on their real interview experiences. You should be able to get these files from top 20 b-school students.

I have a feeling that to successfully crack a case, besides all the preparations and practices, there is a "it" that makes a person better than another to crack the case, whatever that "it" is (does it sound like those E-bay commercial? probably shouldn't watch too much TV...). Anyone wants to comment on this?

I don't think there is a magic answer to that "it". The thing is, not many candidates can smoothly approach the case and eventually crack the case. The failure may result from many factors:

Confidence level
Presentation ability
Deduction ability
Business knowledge
.........

As Mark said, consulting firm is not always asking for a specific answer (although for some cases there are a certain answer). Instead, they are examining whether u can approach a problem systematically with enough confidence level and then make a clear, reasonable conclusion based on the information you dig out from the interview process.

[Jason Lee]

Thank you for you patient on explaining what top 15 means. However, I got confused as I read more. Correct me if I am wrong. I thought you said firms do not look for schools outside of top 15, but now, you are saying it comes down to probabilities.

Do you mean firms will look for non-top 15 schools?
Will firms interview students from non-top 15 schools?
Do you mean firms have a certain quota for top 15 schools and less interview spots for non-top 15 schools?
Would you please define what probabilities mean here?

Is it best of our interest to go to a better school?
Or it does not really matter because eventually top firms will interview us no matter what school we go to?

Re: "Top 15"

It is a general grouping and yes, I realize there are 16 schools on the list. As many people have said, it depends on your objectives. For banking, NYU comes right after the M7. For consulting, brand recognition and tapping into America's "old boys network," maybe Yale, Tuck & Cornell are better choices.

This is not a hard and fast rule. Does that mean if you go to schools outside of the top 15, you have no shot at consulting? Definitely not, but it all comes down to probabilities.

[MarkHsu]

Basically, the way recruiting works differ with each consulting firm.

Short answer is for McK, BCG & Bain, they rarely go outside of the top 15 and almost never go outside of top 20 (again, there are more than 20 schools for my "top 20"--refer to earlier post.)

Based on consultants I have met from these 3 firms over the past 11 years that I have been in Asia, I have yet to meet anyone who is not from a top 20 school from these three consulting firms.

I have met people who do not have MBAs who are consultants, but they usually worked their way up from a BA level and have a Master's degree in a non-business discipline from an elite university.