Ask Mark/Top MBA/Career Discussion

[wsh]

Let me do some simple estimations.
Number of MBA students in top15 US MBAs: 7000 (see below)
Assume 30% apply for IB internships: 2100
Assume each US IB gives an average of 25 offers (10 banks)

US:
250 offers for 2100 students.
Assume 35/70 students from Taiwan apply IB
Assume it is two times harder to get an offer in US
250/2100 * 35 * 50% = 2 offers

Asia (HK+SG+TW):
Assume each Asia IB gives 10 internship offers on average (10 banks also)
Assume 10% of 2100 also apply to Asia IBs
Assume 800 Asia MBA students apply to IB
Assume it is two times easier for US MBAs to get an offer
100/(210+800) *35 *200% = 7 offers

==> 9 offers for 35 IB applicants
This year is a gd year, so I would say 13 offers for 35 applicants.
Considering both 1st and 2nd tier IBs and MBA programs
26 offers for 70 TW IB applicants from US?

Any comments?

HBS 980
Wharton 794
Chicago 549
Kellog 533
Columbia 515
GSB 378
MIT 374
Ross 423
NYU 410
Duke 405
UCLA 360
Darden 303
Cornell 289
Haas 247
Tuck 245
Yale 212
SUM 7017

[Opeman]

To Jason Lee:

I'll try to answer your questions baes on my 2-year interview experience with Mck, BCG and Bain.

Do you mean firms will look for non-top 15 schools?

Maybe. But the chance is very small because non-top 15 is not their primary focus, according to one Mck HR manager. Basically they can find most (>90%) of the interview candidates they want within Top 15. Remember, the higher the ranking, the larger the B-school class in general.

Will firms interview students from non-top 15 schools?

Maybe. But honestly I never met non-top 15 students either in first round or final round for these three firms.

Do you mean firms have a certain quota for top 15 schools and less interview spots for non-top 15 schools?

Given the limited interviewers and time slots, of course they have interview quota. But like I just mentioned, if firms can find 90% of the student they consider qualified to fill the interview slots, then there is no point spending extra efforts focusing on non-top 15.

Would you please define what probabilities mean here?

I don't have exact probability number. This is based on my 2 year observation.

Is it best of our interest to go to a better school?

Yes, and why not?

Or it does not really matter because eventually top firms will interview us no matter what school we go to?

It does matter! For Mck, BCG and Bain, it's very usual that almost everyone in our shcool can get the interview invitation. But in non-top 15 you may need to be very outstanding in every aspect to get the interview invitation.

However, once you get the interview invitation, everyone is equally evaluated regardless of your school. Therefore, for the most part school ranking determines the likelihood of getting an interview invitation

[Yimmiwan]

Opeman, just a quick question to your response. For IB or consulting, is there significant difference within the top-15 schools to gain an interview? Say Cornell vs MIT/Columbia. (I think we can leave H/S/W out of this discussion, right?) I assume it's the same that once granting the interview, school doesn't matter in the process.

[Yimmiwan]

That's an interesting estimate and calculation, wsh. I personally have no idea but would like to hear Mark or someone else comments on it.

[Yimmiwan]

And Mark, if you don't mind, I personally would like to hear top opportunity outside of IB and consulting. What I have particularly in mind is rotational/management program conducted by large multinational companies, like GE. Do you have any insight about this route?

[ayung_tseng]

To Wsh:

Does the IB you mentioned includes Sales and Trading, IBD, Wealth management, and equity research? If yes, I think there may be more offers available in HK+SG+TW because:

• Taiwan 8-12 offers: Equity Research 3-5 offers, IBD 2-3 offers, wealth management 3-4 offers
• Hong Kong may have near double offers as Taiwan: 16-20 for Taiwanese
• Singapore I have no idea but still have chances for Taiwanese MBA to earn IB jobs, also Japan provides IB opportunities.

In summary, 30+ IB offers are available for Taiwanese top 15 MBAs in Asia.

The above bottom-up estimation focus on Taiwanese MBA students’ opportunity in IB institution in South East Asia region.

In addition, the IB offers in US for Taiwanese usually limit to Sales and Trading. I never heard any Taiwanese MBAs working in IBD on the Wall Street. However, it may be due to my limited resources and information.

Any comment?

[陳鵬文]

For second foreign language any recommendations for those who r interested in I-Banking or finance after graduation? Shall I learn Spanish or Japanese or even Cantonese to enhance my chances of getting IB offer in Asia?? Comments?

[ayung_tseng]

If you want to work in Japan, definitely need to learn Japanese.

Spanish is rarely used in Asia.

And Cantonese would help you communicate with HK born colleague, but I guess most China client speaks in Mandarin. however, Cantonese may help you pitch Guangdong Province private clients, like Taiwanese works for middle and southern Taiwan wealthy clients.

[Charleneshen]

WOW, this post is getting longer and more interesting.

I have some question regarding the differences of interview process between management consulting and financial consulting. Can anyone explain to me? Are they all about cracking the cases?

Thanks.

[skull]

[zuckzhc]

Anybody wants to share their intern/work expereinces in IB? I don't have any bank/finance related background. However, I am very curious about what kind of people that IB industry is looking for? What kind of skill set is required? Some of my friends say that it is impossible for a person with no related working expereinces to get a job in IB. If this is true, I'd rather not waste my time with IB recruiters...

Charles

[wsh]

Anybody wants to share their intern/work expereinces in IB? I don't have any bank/finance related background. However, I am very curious about what kind of people that IB industry is looking for? What kind of skill set is required? Some of my friends say that it is impossible for a person with no related working expereinces to get a job in IB. If this is true, I'd rather not waste my time with IB recruiters...

Charles

I think it depends on a lot of factors like
(1) US or UK or Asia IB
(2) Good or bad year
(3) Yourself (I would say half of the MBA students got into UK IB without finance w/e)

Just to serve as a counter example to what your friend said, I got an internship offer from IB without related w/e, check out my post on my MBA experience + internship process

http://www.formosamba.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23781

And just to quote something you said
只要有心,人人都可以是IB

[zuckzhc]

Thanks, wsh. I checked the discussion. Very helpful.

Any clues on the people and culture? Many of my top-tier MBA friends give very negative comments on the IB people and industrial culture. Something like "mean" or "stab someone on the back" are the terms that they usually use to describle IB environment. At the end of day, we all want to be happier, don't we?

Charles

[wsh]

I hope I can feed back to you after my internship on this, but I believe happiness should not be dependent on others!

[MarkHsu]

About Investment Banking:

Basically just want to clarify the different functions within an investment bank that an MBA graduate will typically get recruited into.

MBAs are generally recruited into four main functions/divisions. Their roles are actually quite different so I think it's probably hard to generalize about the IB culture.

Four Main Areas open to MBA students:

--Corporate Finance, commonly known as IBD (Investment Banking Division)

--Research

--Sales & Trading

--Wealth Management