Smith MBA taking questions (Univ. of Maryland)

[MarkHsu]

Believe it or not, my motivation is to get Taiwanese students to think a little bit more about their future.

1) Yes, the world is not all about IB or consulting. FYI, I am in neither of these industries.

2) I'll be the first one to tell you that going to a top school does not guarantee "success"--however you want to define it, or happiness.

My point is fairly simple. If you want to play this "MBA Game" you want to maximize its return. A lot of students do not realize this point until its too late.

If you want to just hear good things about a school, then we can stop the discussion here.

The reason why I am even keeping this discussion going is that I think there are enough people who want to hear the "other side." If not, I can just stop.

[raikennon]

Believe it or not, my motivation is to get Taiwanese students to think a little bit more about their future.

1) Yes, the world is not all about IB or consulting. FYI, I am in neither of these industries.

2) I'll be the first one to tell you that going to a top school does not guarantee "success"--however you want to define it, or happiness.

My point is fairly simple. If you want to play this "MBA Game" you want to maximize its return. A lot of students do not realize this point until its too late.

If you want to just hear good things about a school, then we can stop the discussion here.

The reason why I am even keeping this discussion going is that I think there are enough people who want to hear the "other side." If not, I can just stop.

這個網站沒有"營利"性質,任何願意提供看法的人都是對站上做出貢獻.
我也相信建設性的意見是大家能夠接受的,但不代表點出別人的缺點,然後以大眾利
益為名來批評就是正確的
如果你有這個熱忱,建議你可以另外開版就每個學校來分析優缺點,我相信所有人都會為你鼓掌的.

[BigChiu]

也許M先生只是點出唸MBA另一現實面
各位applicants去唸mba的initiation和goal都不同
但最後畢業時直接就面臨career的問題
學校網站提供的是很overall的資訊
而台灣網站比較沒有像businessweek裡有些forum會有畢業或在校mba學生提供的資訊(eg.career center...employment conditon)...businessweek也有計算各學校的turnover rate....幾年可回收之類的
或許有些年紀大的人...像我這樣的applicant...也需要這樣資訊來選擇學校...畢竟要花幾百萬...拿去投資也要算算報酬率
我想各位applicants有機會去businessweek forum看看...那些評論更直接
even有人批評...大家聽聽就罷了....都是參考而已

[Shane]

Below is the statistical information from our Career Service Office about the salary level of Class 2006 (graduate this year). It is less likely that I can get each individaul salary since it is more about personal privacy.

http://www.smith.umd.edu/career/about/employstats.html

We do very hard to make this discussion board a constructive one rather than a promoional tool. Still, positive feedbacks or ideas are encouraged. Should further information is needed, we are more than happy to help.

Shane

[Jeremy Chiu]

As far as I know, all the MBA programs around the coutry offer pretty much same courses. I have no idea how they define a good MBA program and a bad MBA program. Based on the employment rate? based on the average GMAT score? Based on emoployers' feedback? I say, it all comes down to personal choice.


There are MBA students who care only about school work. They never participate in any event; on the other hand, there's another group of people who don't make straight-A's, but they join 10 different clubs, participate in different social or academic events. By the end of the day, which group do you think that gets the tuition money worth? It all comes down to personal choice. The more you put into it, the more you get out of it.


Each school has its own culture. Public schools and private schools offer different kind of experience. I am having a good time here at Smith (I did my undergrad here at Maryland, and now I am doing my MBA at Maryland). MBA is an excellent experience for me. You have to be here to understand. All those insane all-night meetings, happy hour, coporate interaction, networking experience, tailgate parties before football games, crazy cheers at the basketball games, and etc.


For the class of 2006 here at Smith at Maryland, everyone had an offer by the time they graduated from Smith. All Taiwanese students of '06 are now working in the US. They all found the jobs that they wanted.


If you want to get a CPA, CFA, or certificates of some sort, MBA is not right for you. I am pretty sure with the education culture and system in Taiwan, you would be much more prepared. But if you want to expand your horizon, create your personal network, meet people from different fields, share different knowledge, and take everything to another level further, joining a MBA program could be the most important decision of your life.


學校好不好 要看學生跟學校有沒有心
我們都在這盡力宣傳我們學校
我們不做任何對其他學校的負面意見或挑興
只有分享對MARYLAND的正面資訊

Jeremy R. Chiu
MBA Candidate of Class 2008
Smith School of Business
Univeristy of Maryland

[lchen2008]

大家都提出了很好的觀點, 對這裡想申請MBA的朋友們來說, 都是很好的參考。
我想大家也都是希望為自己的家鄉做一點事, 才會有一股熱誠盡力協助這裡想實現目標的朋友們, 我想不只是我們Smith School的同學, 很多目前在其他business school的朋友們, 也都doing a great job here. 如果我們有未盡理想的地方, 也還請多多包含與指教。

另外補充的是, Smith school of business最主要的strength在於entrepreneurship,marketing,及consulting, 所以在相關資源如Dingman Center,Supply Chain Lab,或是corporate recruit方面有很好的環境跟條件。主要的recruiters可參考Shane提供的web-link, 如IBM, Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers,Citigroup,PepsiCo,Black&Decker,Accenture,Fannie Mae,等等。其他領域相對中等, 如finance investment,在DC周圍主要是hedge funds或private equity及國家性質的金融機構較多,但如果想要找Wallstreet的工作, 自己得付出很多的effort。

另外在獎學金方面,大陸學生還是佔了很多名額, 台灣學生相對辛苦,如果GMAT有700以上,加上不錯的profile,則可以大大提升自己的機會。

Merry X'mas to you all

Nicholas Chen

[spacekid1020]

Happy holidays everyone. Haven't been on this board for a while.

I think the pretty childish and narrow minded statement made by Mr. Mark was well discussed already. However, it's pretty sad to think that anyone actually believe ppl. could back those salary data caims, since salary info. are private and most schools (especially those ivy leaguers) hype their salary data.

Also, what is max. return on investment? Is having a degree and a high paying job the onlly reason for you to get the degree? If so, then I am sorry for you. I would suggest that you look up and stats of each school and nicely "ask" if any of the top school would back any of their cliams with actual offer letters of their graduates.

However, Mr. Mark brought up a good question you should each seriously ask yourself: why are you spending the time and money to get the MBA degree? Why this school or any other school? There really isn't much ROI for most ppl. with at least 5 years of working experience and decent salary already. However, if your goal is to challenge and recharge yourself with a school that fits your learning style. then it's important that the opions of the current and past students are critical (good or bad).

Again, opinions are very subjective a lot of times, and people should have pride in their schools!! BTW, go terps!

[Jeremy Chiu]

For your information, most current ranking:

http://www.rhsmith.umd.edu/news/release ... 12907.html

#17 MBA program in the US
#5 Research University
#2 Placement Rate

[MarkHsu]

Sorry to revive this thread, but I am curious how are the Taiwanese students doing at Maryland?

How's everyone doing in terms of internships & full-time placement?

[Shane]

Thanks for keeping a close eye on Smith. We were busy for final exams and papers so that we couldn't reply you until now. So far, 5 first-year students have secured summer internships:

Marketing-Marketing Strategy(1), Marketing Research(1), Product Management(1)

Finance-Private Equity(1)

For your information!

Shane

[tempis]

Believe it or not, my motivation is to get Taiwanese students to think a little bit more about their future.

1) Yes, the world is not all about IB or consulting. FYI, I am in neither of these industries.

2) I'll be the first one to tell you that going to a top school does not guarantee "success"--however you want to define it, or happiness.

My point is fairly simple. If you want to play this "MBA Game" you want to maximize its return. A lot of students do not realize this point until its too late.

If you want to just hear good things about a school, then we can stop the discussion here.

The reason why I am even keeping this discussion going is that I think there are enough people who want to hear the "other side." If not, I can just stop.

這個網站沒有"營利"性質,任何願意提供看法的人都是對站上做出貢獻.
我也相信建設性的意見是大家能夠接受的,但不代表點出別人的缺點,然後以大眾利
益為名來批評就是正確的
如果你有這個熱忱,建議你可以另外開版就每個學校來分析優缺點,我相信所有人都會為你鼓掌的.

初來此站出發帖
看了一些current student 文章

不管學校排名課程好不好

絕大部分current student都是歌功頌德居多

同樣情況也可再BW中看到

但私底下跟許多念MBA好友閒聊他們卻都牢騷滿腹

與其只想講到學校的優點 current student不妨提供一些學校需要改進的方向

--
認識幾位在貴校附近 排名接近的MBA學生
幾乎全都幹翻天了 但在這網站 大部分的該校學生還是持續歌功頌德

[modern]

其实干翻天是必然的,因为intern竞争激烈,身份问题麻烦公司不想处理, 而有能力处理h1b的大公司多数先取了印度人,然後再把中国+台湾同学放在一落儿让我们自相残杀一翻

毕竟...大家都是"留学" , 没身份,没当地经验,语言能力又不可能跟当地一样好　有什麽当地工作要我们呢? 身份的原罪 语言文化的隔阂 让我们原本就处於不利之地

分析下来就是account跟marcom类的工作人家不要我们 ...因为我们确实没资本跟那些只会BS的死鬼佬竞争 没道理要我们
偏技术性专业性的工作要不是statistic要很好,要不就是会作modelling,会programming,分析能力特好之类的... (一般而言出去念mba的人这类背景也不多)

特殊人才呢?　　
一般来说　老外觉得你是超级正妹的　　属於特殊　　进去Top7 modelling不会作　会洒娇英文别烂太夸张　都可以进IB当sales
还有的就是像我David老弟这种也算　　在某个特定领域钻研已久成精了　　都成精了　BS简直是干掉本土人士　人家自然就要你了
但这种人是极少数><

学校本身没大错 但他们最大的错就是宣传稿都不承认自己是regional school, or only strong in a certain area. 要怪他们吗?
能怪吗? 消费者本身要投入数百万确实是得认清自己投资报酬率

马克最重要的观点是把MBA当作一种branding, 其他(学到的东西 , network )对他来说都可以忽略不记 因为那些不重要
机会成本是马克最重要的观念 ,
因为你可以 1.不投资这笔钱
2. 投去别的地方 (像我说的把这钱拿去中国买房隔间租出去当房东也行)
3. 找马克帮你作personal branding让你有机会进更好的学校,毕业时就好比中国同学在CD上说的 "穿了战袍" 穿上这叫做M7的战袍可以让你不论是小丑还是皇帝, 神猪还是太监, 先让你的潜在雇主们敬你三分. 实况野球有没有玩过? 里面有个能力叫做"威压"就是了.

此观点每个人看法不同... 不一定要完全同意 , 但我个人认识了这麽多人, 是深深可以感受到的. 马克确实点出一些 留学..尤其是念MBA这个人肉市场(well, 人脑市场好了...这样好听些)的重要现象.

学校能带给你的 personal branding surplus依照学校的ranking差异很大, Top15之後递减速度很快, 直到Top30附近就几乎只剩下regional/ specific industrial 的影响力也是不争的事实.
所以我会说,毕业後想要搞OP mgt 申到purdue 就去念很好,绝对有戏. 要搞CPA去念UIUC的那两个MAS/MSA也行,绝对有战. 要搞SCM, MSU申到就去念,雇主一堆等着你. 但是要搞IB念UIUC是缘木求鱼. 要搞branding念purdue也是不适合, 作marcom去MSU可能会不爽,
学校没错,是你错了.

至於只想去management consulting的朋友则没到Top15真的就别花太多钱让自己跟人竞争时难过....学校brochure上面应该是没写自己把学生送进consulting的功夫过人 )

交上那笔deposit之前.. oh no, even before you do apply for it, 请麻烦多花点心思力气 看看curriculum,看看BW data

干个要死除了学校诓了你 一部分责任也得自己担

如果要求多 希望能让所有的心仪雇主都来跟你说声hi
那麽就最好把自己死命的挤进M7, 至少也Top15 ... 因为arrogant IBs and MCs always want to show their clients " hey, see, we have many BIG NAME students in my firm, so we are super smart, extremely brilliant company !"



ps. 抱歉把 普渡 MSU 以及UIUC拖进来 会提到各位朋友的学校是因为这几家都有很明显的市场区隔比较好举例 . 我一向认同fit in,要不然我自己就不会留在香港这地方念书了.
因此,马克观点中唯一一个我比较不认同的也就是 " there is no fit-in " 这句话.
我还是认为有fit in的 , 即便是念不到Top15, 一样的投资金额得不到极大化的报酬, 但那边始终有"something" you learned, which is not comparable to investing a house in China :D

[Shane]

相當認同Modern所言。
本來我不想提起，但既然有人問，我就不妨一談。

當多數人抱怨學校就業輔導不夠時，請你想想，自己付出了多少？
大家都是國際學生，那為什麼印度人總是找的比較好？我想，「態度」真的決定了你的「高度」。各位有機會不妨和印度同學談談就可以知道他們找工作真的是無所不用其極。

機會還是很多，不過一定要認清自己是誰：我們有先天的障礙，所以一定要比別人多付出更多的努力，不論是在英文表達或是專業知識上。

Tempis同學提到某校MBA同學都幹翻天，從我們課程角度來看，教授素質的確有差，有的人真的是言之無物，不過大部分的教授都是非常專業且認真的。另外值得一提的是就業輔導，我覺得這個部分見仁見智，像我同學覺得我們的OCM(office of career management)很遜，幫助不大（因為他沒去幾次）；但我覺得他們給我很多重要的建議以及幫助我模擬面試。我不是在歌功頌德，不過我想在批評學校時，自己要先檢視自己做了多少。在這裡，你一定要主動，積極找工作，主動找顧問談，我們畢竟不是M7，所以只好自己多多擔待些。

最後，引用我同學Jeremy上學期給我一句很受用的話：念MBA就是你付出多少就帶多少走。

[Beegeez2]

大家都是國際學生，那為什麼印度人總是找的比較好？我想，「態度」真的決定了你的「高度」。各位有機會不妨和印度同學談談就可以知道他們找工作真的是無所不用其極。

Could you kindly give us some examples?

Many thanks,

[Jeremy Chiu]

印度同學裡面...就我所看到的, 他們都在下課後或是週末很積極的參加任何company presentation and business-related/ professional club events. 我也常看到他們三不五時就在career management office跟advisor office附近出沒. 印度同學裡面只有一個目前還在找實習(他是找marketing 其他找finance的印度同學都有找到不錯的實習機會).


要是以全部國際學生來說, 要是沒記錯的話,
-歐洲學生都有找到實習,
-印度只剩下找marketing intern的還在努力,
-大陸學生有找到consulting, finance, marketing (還在努力的大約還有2,3個),
-非洲學生很像也都找到實習.
-至於台灣學生, 5 人找到實習 (最近另一個台灣學生也找到在紐約的實習. 剩下2人還在努力 1人要提早畢業回去原本的公司, 所以要拿課)


There you have it.
The key is to take initiative.