Ask Mark/Top MBA/Career Discussion

[modern]

About Investment Banking:

Basically just want to clarify the different functions within an investment bank that an MBA graduate will typically get recruited into.

MBAs are generally recruited into four main functions/divisions. Their roles are actually quite different so I think it's probably hard to generalize about the IB culture.

Four Main Areas open to MBA students:

--Corporate Finance, commonly known as IBD (Investment Banking Division) -->這個最核心 但也最累 原則上IPO M&A都歸這個team搞 一班人來說最多人想進的就是此部門

--Research
俗話說的 一將功成萬骨枯的行業
作研究 百人中一定要衝到前十 前十通吃掉90%的bonus 剩下的90喝渣
Star analysist 風光開心 剩下的多數一樣是每天作十五小時卻是沒知名度也窮的多 well...這行業適合跟產業關係很好 真的夠懂industry 同時又macroecon學的好的人作

--Sales & Trading -->這個裡面主要有幾項 1. institutional sales 2. structure 3. trader 1.裡面又分為equity跟fixed income 後者複雜度更高 數理能力則要更好 前者好做一點點 但也只是一點點 2.結構幾乎是給MFE或是數理背景很好的人出身作的 能做programming 會建model的人 3. 很特殊 能不能作取決於天份比較多 至於怎麼進去 則是我一直無法了解的領域 只能請Mark給解了

我個人認為sales & trading team相形而言錢一樣多 事情跟工時卻少些 是個划算的部門 而且 週末沒盤開 至少可以睡大覺 比起IBD週末可能還要被call到office S&T team的生活正常些

--Wealth Management
Network很重要 論輕鬆程度應該是最輕鬆的 UBS這塊很強 沒記錯的話Barclay, citibank作的也不錯

[MarkHsu]

More detail about investment banking (other parts to follow when I have time)

What jobs do MBAs get when they enter investment banking?

Associate

What is the heirarchy like?

Typically it is Analyst --> Associate --> VP (Vice President) or in some banks AD (Assistant Director) --> Director --> Executive Director (sometimes) --> Managing Director

Who are the major Investment Banks with a presence in Asia?

US firms: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Citigroup

European firms: Deutsche Bank, Credit Suisse, UBS, BNP Paribas, HSBC, ABN-Amro

Others: Macquarie Bank (Australian), Nomura (Japanese)

What do you do as an Investment Banker?

--Underwriting: IPOs (Initial Public Offerings); ADR/GDR (American Depository Receiptis/Global Depository Receipts); Convertible Bond Offering; Exchangeable Bonds
--M&A advisory: Basically convincing one company to buy another

So do you need to have really strong financial skills?

You need to be sensitive to numbers, but being "strong" quantiatively is probably the biggest misconception. More important than anything else for banking is your presence and having strong communication (written and spoken), interpersonal and analytical (logical) skills.

Being a banker is really like being a lawyer. You are really specialized and you perform the task over and over.

Eventually, as you move higher up on the banking ladder, the most important skill to have is sales.

So what is a day like?

The reality is that there are not that many big deals to go around. There are few IPOs and few M&A. It is possible for someone to work 2-3 years at a bank and never participate in a "live deal."

So for a lot of junior bankers (analysts & associates), their time is spent on pitching--coming up with a story why company XYZ should buy someone else or sell itself or why it should go public.

I'd be happy to take questions on this.

[wongweis]

我想請問mark或是 了解columbia mba的人
因為我個人不打算走財務方面的工作
感覺起來columbia is very finance focused,
是不是 columiba curriculm 相對放很多的課程在財務 /數字/會計
career center/recruitting companies
也大部分是關於IB/ 銀行/finance的工作資訊 校
友能給的幫助也是finance industry
對於不打算走財務的學生來說 是不是相對吃虧
或是說 學校career office 可以給學生關於其他Industry 的幫助也不多

[MarkHsu]

I think you are correct in your assessment that Columbia is very finance focused. In fact, I enrolled briefly at Columbia before dropping out. During the first week, the Dean took a show of hands, and 85% of the students expressed a career in finance (investment banking, hedge funds, private equity, etc.)

This doesn't mean that Columbia is not good at teaching marketing, but it just shows that most people who go to Columbia graviate towards Finance in some capacity. If you go to a school like Columbia or NYU, chances are that even the marketing opportunities you seek will be in the Finance industry.

Re: Career Service Offices
My advice is as an international student, you should have realistic expectations about what a career service office (at any school) can do for you. After all the career service people do not have incentives to do extra work for you and you are not going to pay them extra for finding you that $150,000 job.

If you want to do Finance/Consulting, you will think that the Career Offices at Wharton/Columbia/Chicago are great. If you want to work for a start-up in California, then you are on your own. The same line of reasoning goes for the other schools.

My advice is to cut through the BS that the MBA brochures feed you. Talk to current students & recent graduates and find out where students go for internships and for full-time offers. (The reason why I urge you to talk to students & current grads is that I find too many people talking to alums in Taiwan who graduated 10-15 years ago. Most of these people have no clue what's going on in business schools now and some of them probably haven't stepped foot in the US in 10 years.)

Hope this helps.

[HCA]

看了 MarkHsu 和 Opeman 的文章收穫真是不少

在 USC-IBEAR 不到一年
還沒熱完身就要準備找工作了..

Chi-An (George) Hsieh
MBA Candidate, Class of 2007
IBEAR program, Marshall school of Business, USC

[MarkHsu]

Update on Taiwanese MBA students interning at Investment Banks this summer (late reply to wsh):

London: 1 Sales & Trading (S&T), 1 Investment Banking (IBD)
Singapore: 1 (S&T)

HK:
Investment Banking: 4
S&T: 2
Wealth Management: 2 (Sorry forgot the 2 folks doing this)
Taiwan:
Equity Research: 1

NYC:
S&T: 1

Schools Represented: IESE, INSEAD, Stern, Wharton, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Duke

*These are confirmed interns, meaning that at a minumum there are 13 doing internships. In compiling this list, I only counted internships that pay at standard global levels + compensation. These are internships that are at global firms. There could be others at boutique firms or others that I may have missed.

[wsh]

Correction for London:
S&T: 1 & IBD: 1

Thanks for the information!

[MarkHsu]

Great, I assume the person doing IBD in London is your classmate @ IESE.

[wsh]

[wsh]

Yes, I am assuming also you have the London figures from my post.

[jamesgenie]

不知道能否分享一下wealth management這塊的工作生態與生涯發展呢？
先謝謝各位大哥囉！

[fugitive829]

大家講到投資銀行, 好像總是在講IBD, S&T, Research...頂多加個PCS(PB) 或是wealth management.....

可是其實還有其他一樣很不錯, 一樣很累的部門...例如derivatives (structure or sales) , capital market (ECM or DCM) .....

金融業也有其他公司.... hedge fund... boutique .... 或是 brokerage 等等....她們的薪水也不差.....其實不用老提IB, 或是只提那幾個部門.....如果能知道這些公司或部門的就業狀況, 也是很有幫助的

希望我發言沒離題...

[MarkHsu]

ECM/DCM is part of investment banking (from a recruiting stand point)

derivatives: structure & sales is also part of S&T

I am open to hearing what boutiques, hedge funds, etc. are available to Asian students, specifically Taiwanese. But, as far as I know, few have made this jump. Feel free to contribute your thoughts.

[modern]

Boutigue firms mainly aim at people with "local connection", say, u used to be a I-banker or in China security firm's IPO dep or U are the son/daughter of the party BIG HEAD who own stocks of numbers of SOEs. They are not lacking of people who can do modelling or other " PROFESSIONAL" work such as .... pitchbook writing, editing, binding, copying,.... (LOL~ just kidding)

However, we are Taiwanese live in TW work in TW without background in "CHINA," there's not much advantage competing with mainland Chinese.

I believe it is one of the main reasons that Taiwanese are not easy to jump to those firms.