全美TOP 15 MBA--UVA Darden School 經驗分享會-01/06/2008 在台北!

[Darden MBA 2009]

全美TOP 15 MBA中，以個案教學法(case method)著名的Darden school of business, University of Virginia即將在台北舉辦經驗分享會！

我們有兩位一年級學生會在年底回到台灣，非常期待跟大家分享我們在Darden第一個學期的生活及學習的經驗，以及我們對Darden, University of Virginia和Charlottesville的感覺。同時我們也樂意分享我們去年申請學校的經驗，以及回答任何有關Darden的問題。現場我們還會邀請畢業的校友與大家互動。

歡迎今年要申請MBA的朋友，以及未來計畫申請MBA的朋友，利用這個機會好好認識Darden商學院。這是最好的機會來瞭解我們獨特的教學方式及文化，看看Darden是否fit in你，以及你是否fit in Darden!

時間: 1/6 2008（星期日） 下午2:00
地點:日安 KAFFA
地址: 台北市南京東路三段303巷24號
電話: (02)2719-7895
(近捷運南京東路站, 環亞百貨, 兄弟飯店, 慶城公園旁, 皇冠小劇場後方)

下面的連結有路線指示，非常的清楚喔!
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/Q-baby/artic ... age=1&sc=1

由於我們要先統計人數，請有興趣參加的朋友先email到下列信箱：crossover45@hotmail.com

來信請附上姓名以及預計何時申請MBA。如果你有特定問題希望我們在現場能夠回答的，也可以先提出來。
Cheers

[hsyeng]

我也來共襄盛舉為Darden盡點力！我們這一屆五個台灣人有兩位會回台灣(可惜我回不去), 我們舉辦這個活動主要原因有三: 1. 我們真的由衷的喜歡Darden, 2. 希望能讓更多人瞭解Darden, 3. 為Darden招攬更多優秀的同學; 此外, 我自己是工程背景, 雖然這次不能回去, 但是如果有相關背景的同學想多了瞭解我在這邊的感想,適應情形,學習及求職狀況除了活動當天可以直接與另外兩位同學討論外也歡迎隨時與我聯絡.

yunghsiangwu@hotmail.com

[crossover45]

剛好有版友來信提到對於Darden畢業生就業方向的問題。我們最強的就是general management的課程，以培養全方位的領袖為目標。我們的財務也十分有名，現任院長Robert Bruner是美國當代最知名的M&A專家之一。以2007的這一屆剛畢業的校友來說，40%的人選擇財務相關工作，20%的人選擇管理顧問的工作，另有約20%的人選擇進入一般產業擔任管理幹部。我們校友在Wall Street的人數相當多，進入前四大管理顧問公司的人也不少（光是Booz Allen這一屆就招了十幾個人），很多美國知名企業（例如United Technology, Danaher, GM等等）也都把我們當作招聘管理幹部的core school。

最近剛好在申請暑期實習的工作，GM著名的紐約證券交易室培養了許多美國corporate finance和investment banking的人才（美林證券前CEO Stan O'neal就是這邊出來的），這個部門只到特定的幾間學校徵才，他們是:

Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Darden, Duke, Harvard, Kellogg, LBS, Michigan, NYU, Wharton

有興趣進一步瞭解Darden的最新就業資料，可以下載下面的檔案:

[Jason Lee]

The employment statistic is an inaccurate indicator of one’s future job security. Schools might claim that more than 95% of students have job offers by or within 3 months after graduation. Nevertheless, this statistic includes both U.S. citizens and foreign nationals, and yet, usually, it is the U.S. citizens driving the number higher.

Receiving a job offer does not even mean anything. If you were to dip into the employment statistics, you could even find someone accepts an offer that only provides $20,000 a year. $20,000 is much lower than someone who only has a U.S. bachelor degree. Furthermore, this number might even be lower than what you used to receive in Taiwan.

Consequently, what is the point to look at schools’ employment statistics? Those big companies could easily appear on any schools recruiting companies. What makes you think that you could go to those big names by enrolling at Darden? I am not here to demote Darden. It is a well respected school in the US.

Reality check. You are a foreigner. English is your second language for the most people here. How many native Taiwanese MBAs in the past have successfully conquered big 3 consulting firms? Here I mean working IN the US territory. Therefore, it is NOT the school that determines where you would end up. It is YOU who are in control of your own destiny.

[zacchen]

同意樓上,一般而言,在美國找工作有沒有身分比學歷重要
這就是現實,大多數美國公司不願意幫外國人辦身分,因為太麻煩了,況且同樓上所說的,英文能力也是原因之一
理工科背景的在這一點比較吃香,畢竟,唸理工科的美國人相對是少數,市場的需求大,公司幫外國人辦身分的意願也比較高

商學院畢業後就業率的統計作參考就好,那個數字對外國學生來說真的不太適用

舉個例子,UF 的MSF在網頁上把replacement宣傳的漂漂亮亮,給人很大的希望,但是Fall, 2008 他們只願意收"兩個"國際學生,理由是會影響他們program的就業率

A quote from UF MBA website
"International applicants who have the goal of working in the United States after graduation should be aware that it is very difficult to secure a position without first having permanent residency. "

http://www.floridamba.ufl.edu/FutureStu ... ations.asp

不過話說回來,現實歸現實,把自身的條件培養好,機會還是會來敲門的

[crossover45]

Working in US for big names is really difficult to Asia students. I think it applies to all schools and I’m not here to argue about that. However, I have to stress that although top business schools don’t guaranty your success, they DO bring you opportunities. We have two Chinese students got Bain’s offer this year, the other two got interviews from all top 3(all in Greater China). Given that few Chinese and Taiwanese students in Darden community, almost everyone who is “serious” about consulting can get an interview. Whether you can get an offer really depends on your preparation and luck. But NOT every school brings top 3 on campus to hire students. I think the door-open value is what top schools can bring to you.

[MarkHsu]

For consulting, Darden is definitely a school that McKinsey, Bain & BCG recruit from.

[polarbear]

Working in US for big names is really difficult to Asia students. I think it applies to all schools and I’m not here to argue about that. However, I have to stress that although top business schools don’t guaranty your success, they DO bring you opportunities. We have two Chinese students got Bain’s offer this year, the other two got interviews from all top 3(all in Greater China). Given that few Chinese and Taiwanese students in Darden community, almost everyone who is “serious” about consulting can get an interview. Whether you can get an offer really depends on your preparation and luck. But NOT every school brings top 3 on campus to hire students. I think the door-open value is what top schools can bring to you.

同意"門票"的價值.
以consulting firm為例,像進了MIT,大中華區只要有丟都有interview,
McK, Bain, BCG, BAH, AT K,
拿不拿的到offer在個人.

但是美國的話,端看個人能力跟先前工作經驗,
如果你的工作經驗跟其他老美實在沒兩樣,
不太可能拿interview,
但如果你GPA高,GMAT優,先前工作經驗剛好適合顧問公司目前要的,
就比較容易拿interview,
至於offer一樣看個人造化嚕...

[Jason Lee]

There is no doubt that Darden can attract big names to its campus. However, non top-15 schools according to the US NEWS such as University of Texas at Austin could also get all big 3 consulting firms to their campuses. The main point here is not to be misled by the employment statistic.

Although Chinese and Taiwanese students both speak Mandarin, Chinese students could find jobs somehow easier than Taiwanese students do based on the past history. It is great that Chinese students found those consulting jobs, but most people here are Taiwanese students. On the other hand, where are their working locations? Can they easily commingle with their Caucasian clients, colleagues or bosses? They are working in Great China for many reasons. Might English being their second language have something to do with this?

How many Taiwanese students here are struggling to secure their first jobs while many American students already have multiple offers with six-digit starting salaries in their first semester being MBA students? Similarly, one cannot simply use the employment statistic as the ultimate indicator to determine one’s changes to get a job.

[donahue922]

There is no doubt that Darden can attract big names to its campus. However, non top-15 schools according to the US NEWS such as University of Texas at Austin could also get all big 3 consulting firms to their campuses. The main point here is not to be misled by the employment statistic.

Although Chinese and Taiwanese students both speak Mandarin, Chinese students could find jobs somehow easier than Taiwanese students do based on the past history. It is great that Chinese students found those consulting jobs, but most people here are Taiwanese students. On the other hand, where are their working locations? Can they easily commingle with their Caucasian clients, colleagues or bosses? They are working in Great China for many reasons. Might English being their second language have something to do with this?

How many Taiwanese students here are struggling to secure their first jobs while many American students already have multiple offers with six-digit starting salaries in their first semester being MBA students? Similarly, one cannot simply use the employment statistic as the ultimate indicator to determine one’s changes to get a job.

Hi

我覺得你應該是要表達那份就業資料不代表台灣學生畢業後的實際就業情況吧？我贊同統計數據僅供參考，但是不可以否認的是，當你拿不同學校的數據來做比較，可以幫助你多瞭解一點學校的特色，藉以來當作選擇未來就讀的考量之一，每個人都有自己的目標和理想，如果說我未來的目標就是希望進入big 3 consulting firms，那我在選校時本來就是必須把這部分當作考量之一，進而選擇對自己幫助有可能是最大的，成敗當然是靠個人的努力跟運氣，而背景雖然會有所影響，但我們總不能因為自己的背景就放棄追求目標和理想…

其實大大提出那份資料，也只是提供給想申請Darden的人一個參考，更多的資訊是要在分享會上說明，讓想申請Darden的人瞭解更多實際的情形去判斷Darden對自己的幫助。老實說，與其花這麼多時間爭辯這點，不如請你分享一下對Darden的瞭解，也許這會讓大家更瞭解Darden喔！感謝你啦！

[麥香寶]

這篇討論稿的原意 不是為了讓大家更了解Darden嗎?

Jason的原意可能是要大家注意就業數字中的秘密
但有些問題是再怎麼討論也無解的. . . .

我也是希望聽到更多關於Darden的訊息
還是先謝謝Darden校友願意提供學校的訊息給想申請的人

[MarkHsu]

Yup, agree on the point that employment stats can be misleading.

But, I don't think working in Greater China is inferior to working in the U.S. For many people, it's simply where your comparative advantage lies.

It can be argued that working in GC today is perhaps even more competitive than working in the U.S. for the simple reason that there are so many MBAs now for so few openings in Asia.

[cburger]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
~popularized in the U.S. by Mark Twain :D

Joking aside, from my experience, international students usually possess different competitive advantages, compared with domestic students. If an employer looks for strengths that an applicant doesn't have, his/her chance of getting that job offer will be slim. That will be the same no matter where you decide to work. So, if your dream job requires skills you lack, you have 3 choices: give up, strengthen your skills, or blue ocean. That's up to you and you only. Another word of advice is that straight line isn't always the shortest distance in life. If you really want the dream job you can't get right now, you can always figure out a way to stay around until you are ready to take it.

[Jason Lee]

All your points are well taken.

First, I already said Darden is a well respected school in the US. I have no intention to demote Darden in any ways.

Second, I only stated the FACT that most Chinese students found consulting jobs outside of the US soil. I have never judged on the situation.

Third, my intention was to explore our future chances of landing jobs. Sharing similar cultural backgrounds, I would greatly appreciate if Darden Taiwanese students would discuss their job hunting experiences. Involving your personal privacy, I would understand should you choose not to disclose it. An employment statistic could not simply satisfy my desire to discover the true Darden experience for Taiwanese students. Although job hunting experience may vary by individuals' cases, Taiwanese students’ performance and experiences provide the only evidences we could seek without being Darden students.

Again, my intention here is not to argue on the facts. I simply just want to know how Taiwanese students feel at each different school. Understanding this would definitely help me to clarify and minimize the gap between my expectation and the reality.

[hsyeng]

我來分享一下 其他的經驗好了 其實學校的名次除了M7在申請初期有明顯的brand name優勢外 在申請其他的學校時 同學應該更多瞭解學校是哪些firm的core school, 學校的教學方式, 學校的strength, 校風, 環境等等. 在Darden, 我跟其他同學的感覺很一致, 來Darden的學生給人的感覺普遍上都很相近, 我想其他學校也會有這樣的特質. 這幾天我的感覺特別深刻, 今天下午三點是學校第一波intern resume 和cover letter的deadline, 所有的同學都忙到昏天暗地, 平均一個人都有個10幾間公司要apply. 但是妳還是隨時都可以看到妳的美國同學或二年級學長抽出自己的時間坐在妳旁邊一句一句跟妳討論妳的cover letter. MBA的生活已經非常競爭了, 我想這樣supportive跟friendly的環境, 是Darden的特色之一.