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FormosaMBA 傷心咖啡店 • 查看主题 - [閒聊]談談MBA申請時的道德問題

[閒聊]談談MBA申請時的道德問題

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版主: raist, Opeman

帖子twkevin » 2005-05-25 22:38

jasonhsu \$m[1]:
與申請學校無關.....
我想說的是.......許多人只會被媒體牽著跑~~說林姓醫師沒醫德未免太過
有誰知道整個急救流程怎麼跑嗎?
若不能根據是實再下論斷似乎跟媒體沒什麼兩樣

我想在這邊的人都是想去國外唸書的,
對每件事情若抱持著懷疑態度後再去求證應該較接近國外的獨立思考精神

有興趣者可至ptt2 8A版 參考拙作4650篇


如有冒犯醫學界 深感欠意
我不可能對每件事都去求證
有些只能截取媒體結論

道德問題與申請學校有關係嘛?
我的獨立思考告訴我 "有" 很有關係
我也曾抱 懷疑態度後再去求證
( 是從法律學, 經濟學, 財務學, 會計學, 甚至政治學, 文化學, 社會學的多元角度,探討公司這個企業組織的運作,以及他所涉及的各種利害關係人的互動,以評估其各別績效的課題, 結論是 道德"誠信" 是問題的徵結, 再多的規範對無誠信的人都可能出現問題)

如果沒有關係 就不會一推MBA申請 在問道德兩難問題
之前的言論是在討論" 專業與道德 "的問題
所以直接引用媒體的結論
並不是討論那位醫生 是否真的有無醫德
有時間 我會去瞭解醫療系統的問題
企業問題是憂關$的問題
不過醫療問題是會影響生命 似乎是應該更嚴謹

謝謝你的指教
What you put in is what you get out of an MBA.
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帖子Chang,Stella » 2005-05-26 00:09

twkevin \$m[1]:
jasonhsu \$m[1]:
與申請學校無關.....
我想說的是.......許多人只會被媒體牽著跑~~說林姓醫師沒醫德未免太過
有誰知道整個急救流程怎麼跑嗎?
若不能根據是實再下論斷似乎跟媒體沒什麼兩樣

我想在這邊的人都是想去國外唸書的,
對每件事情若抱持著懷疑態度後再去求證應該較接近國外的獨立思考精神

有興趣者可至ptt2 8A版 參考拙作4650篇


如有冒犯醫學界 深感欠意
我不可能對每件事都去求證
有些只能截取媒體結論

道德問題與申請學校有關係嘛?
我的獨立思考告訴我 "有" 很有關係
我也曾抱 懷疑態度後再去求證
( 是從法律學, 經濟學, 財務學, 會計學, 甚至政治學, 文化學, 社會學的多元角度,探討公司這個企業組織的運作,以及他所涉及的各種利害關係人的互動,以評估其各別績效的課題, 結論是 道德"誠信" 是問題的徵結, 再多的規範對無誠信的人都可能出現問題)

如果沒有關係 就不會一推MBA申請 在問道德兩難問題
之前的言論是在討論" 專業與道德 "的問題
所以直接引用媒體的結論
並不是討論那位醫生 是否真的有無醫德
有時間 我會去瞭解醫療系統的問題
企業問題是憂關$的問題
不過醫療問題是會影響生命 似乎是應該更嚴謹

謝謝你的指教

先說一下, 很喜歡樓主的這篇文章, 其實道德兩難的問題每天都在發生, 不論工作,求學,家庭... 或本貼的主題"申請MBA"
想說的是, 就一個和我們無切身關係的新聞事件, 其實不可能做到 jason所說的"求証"這個部份, 這不論在世界各地都是一樣的, 很難避免不受媒體的"引導" 或"誤導", 這是媒體的責任, 不再看電視老百姓的責任, 因為所謂的"真象"或"事實", 只有當事人自己最清楚了, 然而, 就你自身或週遭所發生的事件, 抱所著懷疑態度後再去求證, 那就是必然的了.

p.s sorry, 我想quote的是jason的文
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帖子jasonhsu » 2005-05-26 12:27

無意引起論戰
只是我一開始就說與申請無關了XD

我用意只是希望大家不是只用"聽"就對人的品德下判斷
我不認識事件的當事人,
我也不是醫界的, 只是能說是有淵源
當然媒體的無知是他們自己的問題
我們要不要buy it 就是自己的判斷了
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帖子Chang,Stella » 2005-05-26 13:53

jasonhsu \$m[1]:無意引起論戰
只是我一開始就說與申請無關了XD

我用意只是希望大家不是只用"聽"就對人的品德下判斷
我不認識事件的當事人,
我也不是醫界的, 只是能說是有淵源
當然媒體的無知是他們自己的問題
我們要不要buy it 就是自己的判斷了

其實jason對判斷一件事情的態度是很正確的, 我想, 在這裡沒有論戰, 有的只是大家交換彼此生活、求學的心得、想法及感觸, 藉由每個人不同的生活體驗而反饋的經驗談, 可以提供每個人不同的思考面向, 我覺得這是件很棒的事, 不是嗎? Rgds.
咱們好像已離本貼主題了, 還請樓主Allenr見諒, 很喜歡你寫的這篇文章 ;yes; , 請大家繼續討論主題囉!
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帖子twkevin » 2005-05-26 13:56

jasonhsu \$m[1]:無意引起論戰
只是我一開始就說與申請無關了XD

我用意只是希望大家不是只用"聽"就對人的品德下判斷
我不認識事件的當事人,
我也不是醫界的, 只是能說是有淵源
當然媒體的無知是他們自己的問題
我們要不要buy it 就是自己的判斷了


樂見多元化的意見
只是我們討論點不同巴
有點誤解
你所說的無關應該是""聽"就對人的品德下判斷"
(這點我承認有疏失, 知到要注意了 :||| )
不過我討論的MBA申請時的道德問題

Thank you, Jason
What you put in is what you get out of an MBA.
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帖子twkevin » 2005-06-11 14:37

MARCH 9, 2005

B-SCHOOL NEWS
By Geoff Gloeckler and Jennifer Merritt


An Ethics Lesson for MBA Wannabes

Applicants to Harvard and some other schools are being rejected because they tried hacking the schools' internal info on their status
Several hundred MBA applicants have failed their first test in business ethics after being caught hacking into software to check on the status of their applications. Several top-tier B-schools that discovered they were hacked have decided to reject those hackers' applications.

The problem was first discovered at Harvard last week. The school said 119 prospective students hacked into the files of ApplyYourself Inc., an admissions outsourcing company that handles Harvard's admissions applications.

Instances have also been uncovered at Stanford, MIT, Duke, Carnegie Mellon, Dartmouth, and possibly others. Using instructions posted by anonymous users on several Internet B-School bulletin boards, including at BusinessWeek Online, many of the hackers were able to discover their acceptance status weeks before decision letters were sent. BusinessWeek Online removed the posting on its message board as soon as it was discovered.

"LACK OF INTEGRITY." Harvard decided these potential students are not tomorrow's leaders. In a statement, Harvard Dean Kim B. Clark called the hacking "unethical," saying Harvard wants to educate principled leaders with "a strong moral compass and intuitive sense of what is right and wrong." Says Clark: "Those who have hacked into this Web site have failed to pass that test." Still, the school won't alert competitors to the dishonest applicants. Says Harvard spokesman Jim Aisner, "[We're] looking out for our own interests, our own turf."

Other schools are still assessing their stand. Stanford Graduate School of Business says it's asking the applicants who used the information to check on their status "to take ownership of their actions, take the initiative in contacting us, and offer any possible explanation for these actions." The school's decisions will be made on a case-by-case basis, although in a statement, Derrick Bolton, assistant dean and director of MBA Admissions, said: "In the best case, what has been demonstrated here is a lack of judgment; in the worst case, a lack of integrity."

Carnegie Mellon University's Tepper School of Business is trying to verify that two applicants hacked in -— and then will likely deny them admission, a spokerperson says. Still other schools that had their admissions information hacked refused to allow ApplyYourself to identify them by name.

NO INFO. Paul Danos, dean of Dartmouth College's Tuck School of Business, says he's taking the situation very seriously and will carry out a full investigation before determining the school's action. "We want to be thoughtful about this process. We feel it's important to collect as much information as we can before we make a decision," says Danos. "We will convene a meeting with representatives from our admissions team, ethics professors, and deans on Friday to discuss the options."

MIT's Sloan School of Business is rejecting anyone it discovers has attempted to hack into its application files, while Duke University's Fuqua School of Business remains undecided on how to proceed.

Ironically, applicants who hacked into MIT, Duke, and Carnegie Mellon didn't find out whether they might have been accepted. Those schools don't keep admission decisions on their internal intranet system until the entire process is complete. "No one who sought unauthorized access to his or her account was able to access information about the admission decision," MIT Dean Richard Schmalensee said in a statement.

Of course, some of these rejected applicants may turn to other schools now. What are their chances there? While Harvard won't be sharing the names of those who hacked into its system, an alert has gone up among B-schools across the country, and many will be on the lookout.

APPLAUSE? Emphasizing that she was speaking hypothetically, Beth Flye, admissions director at Northwestern's Kellogg School of Business, says: "Let's just say if some information of this nature came to our attention, we would want to get the most factual information possible and discuss it internally. Then we might take action." Kellogg doesn't use ApplyYourself for admissions. But Flye says she believes those who hacked in erred. "It comes down to making good choices with good judgment."

On many of the bulletin boards where the instructions on how to hack first appeared, debate over the incident still rages. Surprisingly, some applicants and other message-board posters at BusinessWeek Online and various MBA-related chat groups say they failed to see the ethical issue presented. Some went so far as to say that these individuals should be applauded. "Exploiting weaknesses is what good business is all about. Why would they ding you?" wrote one poster on accepted.com's message board last week.

Yet many of those who expressed an opinion about the hackers agreed with the decision to reject their applications. With all the talk of ethics and B-schools these days -— looks like this was score one for ethics education.
What you put in is what you get out of an MBA.
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帖子twkevin » 2005-06-11 14:38

Letter from Harvard's B-School Dean:

I would like to have the last word on Harvard Business School's policy regarding applicants who hacked into the ApplyYourself, Inc., Web site containing confidential admissions information. This behavior is unethical at best--a serious breach of trust that cannot be countered by rationalization. Any applicant found to have done so will not be admitted to this School.


Our mission is to educate principled leaders who make a difference in the world. To achieve that, a person must have many skills and qualities, including the highest standards of integrity, sound judgment, and a strong moral compass -- an intuitive sense of what is right and wrong. Those who have hacked into this Web site have failed to pass that test.

Kim B. Clark
Dean, Harvard Business School
Boston, Massachusetts
What you put in is what you get out of an MBA.
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