[討論]GWD24-8

[ivanchiang]

這題沒人貼過~真妙~
我個人看這題看得頭暈目眩

24-8 The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
(D) with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
(E) with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

Ans:C

[ivanchiang]

說說我的看法跟疑惑

(A)我選了這個，但我邊睡邊寫，後來發現後面那個it根本沒辦法對profits做指代
(B)同樣it指代有問題
(C)正確答案
(D)with短語放在句尾邏輯主語常會有模糊不清的現象，到底是指主句主語？還是修飾最近名詞？還是修飾全句？
(E)同樣with的問題，還有後面有我最討厭的having fallen

我的疑問是
1、在(B)選項中(先撇開致命傷it不說)，各位大大會不會覺得前後都是同樣時態(過去完成式)會看不出來有時間先後的毛病?我個人是覺得這個題目的內容裡，after前跟after後時態應該要有個先後，就像....and then...這樣，不知道大家意見如何?

2、正確選項(C)後面的after falling我總覺得彆扭...為什麼這邊會變動名詞?可以為我解釋嗎...

請多多給我"鞭"策

[Pufa]

我的疑問是
1、在(B)選項中(先撇開致命傷it不說)，各位大大會不會覺得前後都是同樣時態(過去完成式)會看不出來有時間先後的毛病?我個人是覺得這個題目的內容裡，after前跟after後時態應該要有個先後，就像....and then...這樣，不知道大家意見如何?

舉手贊成！
事情發生的順序是：
利潤下降--(分水嶺=今年年初)-->利潤上升
A跟B都可以用看不出時序來排除。

2、正確選項(C)後面的after falling我總覺得彆扭...為什麼這邊會變動名詞?可以為我解釋嗎...

have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling（after they fell） over the last two years.
OG第一題有提到這個觀念。

[ivanchiang]

恩恩~謝謝Pufa大大~~

[Pufa]

新同學叫大大就算了....
大家都是老同學了還叫什麼大大:P

[agk99]

how about choice D? in fact, I know C is a little bit better than D, but I dont accept what Ivan said, just cuz' the "with clause" always makes the sentence unclear. Someone can give me more solid reason to kick off D?

[維尼]

how about choice D? in fact, I know C is a little bit better than D, but I dont accept what Ivan said, just cuz' the "with clause" always makes the sentence unclear. Someone can give me more solid reason to kick off D?

我自己覺得有一個可能的問題是 fall 的主詞是誰?
會不會被誤認為是原句的主詞 results?

還有
with 前面需要逗點嗎?

[ivanchiang]

how about choice D? in fact, I know C is a little bit better than D, but I dont accept what Ivan said, just cuz' the "with clause" always makes the sentence unclear. Someone can give me more solid reason to kick off D?

我還是認為with clause容易有模糊指代
但或許該用這種想法
"容易有模糊指代，但還是可以~"

D我覺得還有個不好
前面的上升increase是個狀況，後面falling卻是個動作
我個人小小地認為~要對照兩各東西，最好是同種性質的~
也就是說
動作←→動作
狀態←→狀態

[ivanchiang]

how about choice D? in fact, I know C is a little bit better than D, but I dont accept what Ivan said, just cuz' the "with clause" always makes the sentence unclear. Someone can give me more solid reason to kick off D?

我自己覺得有一個可能的問題是 fall 的主詞是誰?
會不會被誤認為是原句的主詞 results?

還有
with 前面需要逗點嗎?

with沒加逗號比較像是在修飾profits
加了逗號真的就有點模糊了...
簡言之，我覺得那粒"逗號"壞了事

[EmmaCYC]

(C) which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling

請問"增加"不是在下降之後嗎?
為什麼用have increased?

前面有提過OGQ1 有類似概念
但我還是搞不懂耶

[sweetymanman]

個人想法是因為後面的 over the last two years （用完成式）

[EmmaCYC]

個人想法是因為後面的 over the last two years （用完成式）

over the last two years應該接現在完成式
所以選項C=>after falling+over the last two years.
那更怪啦...

題目說在過去2年獲利衰退"之後",今年第一季的獲利成長了5%
所以 衰退是比獲利的時間先完成
卻為什麼是獲利用完成式

講到這邊我更困惑了,
因為衰退是過去兩年前到"過去"的時間點結束
例如2004-2005年=>衰退
2006年1Q=>成長
那為什麼衰退不是用過去完成式?

[sweetymanman]

不好意思喔，我再說一下自己的想法，不知道對不對 ，希望大家一起討論
我先貼一下題目喔

24-8 The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
(D) with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
(E) with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

我把答案C帶入,原句改為:
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling [/color] over the last two years.

which 修飾前面的 profit
所以應該是：profits have increased during the first three months of this year
修正一下之前所說的，這裡要用完成式，應該是因為 profit 從今年開始已經 increase 三個月，由於未來的狀況還不知道，所以表示從過去一段時癲到現在的狀況，用現在完成式，和後面的時態 over the last two years 無關

另外，後面 after falling over the last two years
原句是 after profits fell over the last two years
這樣看起來覺得時態好像怪怪的
不知道over + time 可否用過去是表示,朗文對during & over 的def.：During and over are used when you state the period of time in which something happens or changes
• During her first year at college, she had several boyfriends.
• Over the last six months, crime has doubled.
這樣看起來好像可以直接用過去式
不過好像和以前學的不一樣
再找找有沒有類似的用法吧


不過還好的是這一題好像除了C也沒有其他選擇
PS 要是每一題都這樣搞.....可能只能寫五題時間就到啦
一起加油

朗文字典：針對since / for / during / over 說明如下：
Since
Use since to say that something started at a point in time in the past, and is still continuing
• He has been living in Leeds since 1998.
• We've known about it since May.
Since is usually followed by a time expression ('last year', 'this morning', '4 o'clock' etc) or by the simple past tense. Use the present perfect or the past perfect in the other clause
• I have loved movies since I first went to the cinema.
• He had been seriously ill since Christmas.
!! Speakers of British English usually say it is a long time/two weeks etc since..., and speakers of American English it has been a long time/two weeks etc since..., but both uses are correct
• It's weeks (BrE)/It's been weeks (AmE) since I saw Grandma.
Use for when you state the length of time that something has been happening
• We have known each other for ten years (NOT since ten years).
• I had been waiting for hours (NOT since hours).
• I haven't seen him for ages (NOT since ages).
During and over are used when you state the period of time in which something happens or changes
• During her first year at college, she had several boyfriends.
• Over the last six months, crime has doubled.
open to discuss

[EmmaCYC]

我把答案C帶入,原句改為:
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling [/color] over the last two years.

which 修飾前面的 profit
所以應該是：profits have increased during the first three months of this year
修正一下之前所說的，這裡要用完成式，應該是因為 profit 從今年開始已經 increase 三個月，由於未來的狀況還不知道，所以表示從過去一段時癲到現在的狀況，用現在完成式，和後面的時態 over the last two years 無關
我記得有老師說過
用 over XX years如同用sinceㄧ樣,都是要用現在完成式

另外，後面 after falling over the last two years
原句是 after profits had fallen over the last two years
這裡才是因為發生的時間比較早，再加上時態為 over the last two years ，所以理應用過去完成式
後來因為省略導致

過去完成式可以省略成這樣嗎?
我記得若要省略不是要成這樣 after having falling over the last two years

[sweetymanman]

我把答案C帶入,原句改為:
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling [/color] over the last two years.

which 修飾前面的 profit
所以應該是：profits have increased during the first three months of this year
修正一下之前所說的，這裡要用完成式，應該是因為 profit 從今年開始已經 increase 三個月，由於未來的狀況還不知道，所以表示從過去一段時癲到現在的狀況，用現在完成式，和後面的時態 over the last two years 無關
我記得有老師說過
用 over XX years如同用sinceㄧ樣,都是要用現在完成式 ----可是好像不影響這一段話ㄟ，因為這裡的over the last two years 不是拿來修飾 profits have increased during the first three months of this year
但這個時間片與會不會影響後面的句子，我覺得值得討論

另外，後面 after falling over the last two years
原句是 after profits had fallen over the last two years
這裡才是因為發生的時間比較早，再加上時態為 over the last two years ，所以理應用過去完成式
後來因為省略導致

過去完成式可以省略成這樣嗎?
我記得若要省略不是要成這樣 after having falling over the last two years----嘻嘻，對ㄟ，怎麼沒想到！
這樣看起來要用順利還原好像只剩下一種解釋方法，就是把 過去利潤下降 當作一個過去事實，用過去簡單式
但這樣好像又有點和後面的時態接不上，這就牽扯 ocer +time的用法，到這裡，好像已經有點虛脫啦！！！！
剩下的就交給EmmaCYC大大喔